Marciano vs. Norton

I would give Ali of 1970-1975 a very good chance against Marciano, and I actually think that this Ali have a better chance of stopping him than vice versa.

A good poster like you shouldn't harp on about Ali only doing the rope-a-dope, because that wasn't what Ali of the early 70's was about. He did it ONCE, but he sticked and moved on far more occassions. Yes, he had lost a step, but against Frazier (especially rematch), Norton (rematch), Ellis, Quarry, Bugner and Chuvalo he still showed really good movement and sharp punching. When he got into proper shape in the early 70's he still looked very, very sharp.


The fight against Foreman was the ONLY one up to that point where he consistently lay on the ropes. Therefore I get a bit annoyed when Ali of the early 70's gets reduced to just a rope-a-doper.

 

wasnt the Charles cut his nose being opened up completly

 

Are we discussing late 1970's out of shape un-prepared Ali vs Marciano?

 

Mix them together.

 

The Rock, Knocks, The Block-Off Kenny Head.

 

Look I am a huge Ali fan, and outside of Joe Louis, I dont think any heavyweight in history beats a 1960s Muhammad Ali. But this is a 1970s Ali were talking about....he got clearly outpointed by Joe Frazier, then struggled greatly with a past his prime overweight joe frazier in rematches. I think a peak Marciano is alot better than the frazier of the 2nd and 3rd fights. Though Frazier put on more pressure and faster hands, Marciano took more angles he was harder to hit with a clean jab, he was the much more effective two fisted puncher, the way he would roll his torso around and come up with a leaping left hook would give a 70s ali huge fits. I just dont think Ali in the 70s could keep up with marciano for 15 rounds, i think Ali would get seriosely worn down.

1960s ali is a different story

 

For someone who rates Dempsey so high head to head, I'll never understand the the lack of high rating for Marciano. Old Fogster once pointed out just how many flaws dempsey has head to head.

 

I have no problem with anyone picking Marciano over early 70's Ali. While I'm not sure I agree, I definitely see an argument for it. What I objected against was that he would try a rope-a-dope. I think his choosen tactic would be to stick and move. Marciano could of course trap him on the ropes and wear him down, but I don't think Ali would put himself in that situation willingly.

I think a bit much is made of Frazier's supposed decline in the second and third fight. Sure, FOTC saw the best version of him, but he was in great shape in the other two as well. I also think that Ali just being six months out of exile probably was a factor in the first fight. It should also be noted that Ali was the one furthest from his prime weight over the three fights all in all, so if one calls Frazier overweight the same also goes for Ali.

Maciano hands down beats any version of Ali post Manilla, btw. Possibly by KO.

 

Haven't you heard? Marciano was a blown-up light-heavyweight, no way he could have that kind of power...

 

Norton also got knocked out by the 188 lb Jose Luis Garcia.

 

Norton also came back to destroy Garcia.

The only Ali that loses to the best Marciano is post Norton 3 ...

 

Good post Bokaj....but if you read the posts here not everyone is agreeing with us. In fact I have heard more than one poster pick a 1977-1978 Ali to easily beat Marciano

 

You must mean post manilla right? Ali really lost alot after Manilla and by 1976 his speed snap and reflexes were gone and he was relying all on experience. Marciano would crush a 1976-1978 ali, no way ali is able to take that kind of punishment for 15 rounds. Don't forget, Marciano was a better two fisted puncher than frazier.

 

Yeah, I saw. Quite strange... Even a prime Ali would be pissing blood and whatnot after a fight with Marciano. It would always be a very, very tough fight for him.

 

So how far gone would he have to be to loose to Doug Jones?