Marciano vs. Tyson

:huh:huh eh?? So are you sticking with your "Tysons miles bigger so he'd kill Marciano!" Stance?? Because the opposite of that was my point?? Haha

 

Jeez this is hard work.....

You originally implied that Louis weighing over 210lb did not present a problem to Marciano therefore someone weighing 217lb would also not present a problem.

This is very true if the guy in question is not much more than a punchbag who's best days are behind him.

My issue is that it would present a problem if the guy weighing 33lb more than Rocky was also an explosive puncher and one of the best finishers ever and also in his prime.

That is when the size difference does come into effect and as Seamus stated earlier, Tyson would be landing 4 shots to Rockys 1.

So yes i am sticking with the by far bigger and faster Tyson stopping Marciano early.

 

If prime Tyson had to face a prime Foreman a prime Ali, tough Walcott and Charles, plus throw in Archie Moore and a few others notables like La Starza, Quarry, Foster, Chuvalo, and Jones I think he would have taken a little more in the way of punishment.

Even still he took plenty on punishment from Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield. I consider both of thes fights his prime.

As I looked through Tyson resume up until the Evander Holyfield I don't one fighter that Frazier or Maricano wouldn't have KO'ed.


Mar. 6 -- Hector Mercedes, Albany, N.Y., TKO 1
Apr. 10 -- Trent Singleton, Albany, N.Y., TKO 1
May 23 -- Don Halpern, Albany, N.Y., KO 4
June 20 -- Rick Spain, Atlantic City, N.J., KO 1
July 11 -- John Alderson, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 2
July 19 -- Larry Sims, Poughkeepsie, N.Y., KO 3
Aug. 15 -- Lorenzo Canady, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 1
Sept. 5 -- Michael Johnson, Atlantic City, N.J., KO 1
Oct. 9 -- Donnie Long, Atlantic City, N.J., KO 1
Oct. 25 -- Robert Colay, Atlantic City, N.J., KO 1
Nov. 1 -- Sterling Benjamin, Latham, N.Y., TKO 1
Nov. 13 -- Eddie Richardson, Houston, KO 1
Nov. 22 -- Conroy Nelson, Latham, N.Y., KO 2
Dec. 6 -- Sammy Scaff, New York, KO 1
Dec. 27 -- Mark Young, Latham, N.Y., KO 1


1986
Jan. 10 -- Dave Jaco, Albany, N.Y., TKO 1
Jan. 24 -- Mike Jamison, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 5
Feb. 16 -- Jesse Ferguson, Troy, N.Y., W DSQ 6
Mar. 10 -- Steve Zouski, Uniondale, N.Y., KO 3
May 3 -- James Tillis, Glen Falls, N.Y., W 10
May 20 -- Mitch Green, New York, W 10
June 13 -- Reggie Gross, New York, TKO 1
June 28 -- William Hosea, Troy, N.Y., KO 1
July 11 -- Lorenzo Boyd, Swan Lake, N.Y., KO 2
July 26 -- Marvis Frazier, Glen Falls, N.Y., KO 1
Aug. 17 -- Jose Ribalta, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 10
Sept. 6 -- Alfonzo Ratliff, Las Vegas, KO 2
Nov. 22 -- Trevor Berbick, Las Vegas, TKO 2
(Won WBC Heavyweight Title)
1987
Mar.7 -- James Smith, Las Vegas, W 12
(Won WBA Heavyweight Title/Retained WBC Heavyweight Title)
May 30 -- Pinklon Thomas, Las Vegas, TKO 6
(Retained WBA/WBC Heavyweight Titles)
Aug. 1 -- Tony Tucker, Las Vegas, W 12
(Won IBF Heavyweight Title/Retained WBA/WBC Heavyweight Titles/Became Undisputed World Heavyweight Champion)
Oct. 16 -- Tyrell Biggs, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 7
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)

1988
Jan. 22 -- Larry Holmes, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 4
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)
Mar. 21 -- Tony Tubbs, Tokyo, Japan, TKO 2
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)
June 27 -- Michael Spinks, Atlantic City, N.J., KO 1
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)

1989
Feb. 25 -- Frank Bruno, Las Vegas, TKO 5
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)
July 21 -- Carl Williams, Atlantic City, N.J., TKO 1
(Retained Undisputed World Heavyweight Title)

1990
Buster Douglas

 

All the stuff about Marciano walking into and through punches and fighting with his face is a TOTAL FALACY - Marciano rarely, if ever, got caught with more than one punch at a time? I once sat down and watched all of Marciano's filmed fights back to back with the express intension of seeing how often he did get hit - I ignored all other features in the fights and just concentrated on noting any occassons when he was hit with consecutive punches and I think I only used the fingers on one hand to count them in the end - he made it difficult for you to land by timing his moves and anticipating those of his opponents as he edged forward and used that awkward dipping away and leaning back method to stop you from being able to land back without putting yourself in harms way - he wasn't even that regularly caught with the jab actually - Marciano was FLAT OUT NOT A FACE FIRST FIGHTER!? Frazier was more easy to time because he was more predictable and fought to an obvious 1-2-3...4! rhythm and he didn't actually anticipate shots and avoid them he simply bobbed up and down and bobbed around as much as he possibly could in the hope that he'd happen to avoid most of the punches coming back at him which is why he tended to take more in the process - Tyson didn't take much in his prime because he wasn't really in fights - his opponents were usually to scared and too limited to commit themselves to throwing punches with real conviction which is why Tyson got such a shock later in his career when people started having the balls to fight him back

Check out this video for a bit more of a taster - or better still (and I implore all those who think Marciano was a face first fight) to do what i did and sit down and watch all the footage of his fights and count for yourself how often anyone caught with consecutive really effective punches (and consider how experienced and skilled the guys who couldn't do it were also)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

 

EXACTLY:good Tyson was in his prime - there is no debating that whatsoever -,what was he when he lost to Buster? 24?? Hell most guys are a little green at 24!?? He was right in his prime - all those sort of fights illustrate, are Tyson short comings - that he was prone to over confidence and prone to lack of discipline in training, and also that he wasn't a natural fighter - as Teddy Atlas has said "he didn't walk in the gym like that" - Tyson was a 'drilled' fighter who when asked to fight off his own back and adapt himself when left to his own devices could come unstuck - basically Tyson was a front runner - and Marciano didn't let you front run

 

OK, no problem with what you said.

If you say that Douglas is not Tyson's prime, OK. That basically leaves us with a four year window to look at. I would say that in the time he beat no one of note except a way past it Holmes, which is similar to Holmes beating Ali, and Spinks, which is similar to Frazier beating Foster. This equals good buuuut, not really worth mentioning in a debate.

Then we are left with how Tyson destroyed bums. He nuked them. Great. Is like a Super Power nation nuking the Bamaha's. Fine. But when he was faced other world powers or even inspired nations he was KO'ed or quit. Everytime. Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis.

I think if you put Frazier or Maricano in with with Berbick or Thomas I think you get similar results. However if you put Tyson in with '71 Ali or '52 Walcott I think Tyson has a harder task than he had KO'ing Berbick in 2 or Thomas in 6.

Maricano and Frazier actually fought those men and gave them both the plenty. If Tyson best is Thomas and Berbick I would say he has a long way to go before he "wiped the floor with both of them".

Just saying.

 

I'd be rooting for Marciano hard; I have no idea who would win.

I can certainly see the Tyson argument. Two agressive, come foreward guys with hurtful punches, there's a good chance that the fight would come to a fairly early resolution; and that might be good news for Tyson, as he was admittedly quicker handed, more precise and better at putting punches in bunches.

On the other hand, I could see Marciano influencing Tyson a bit more than vice versa, and I wonder if Tyson would be as strong with Marciano as people think.

Referee'ing would be important. It would be better for Mike to be coming in rather than actually in, so I think a quick break referee is better for Tyson. I'll tell you, though, if Tyson runs into a good Marciano punch coming in, that's going to hurt.

 

Tyson would land 4 punches to one against Marciano. Faster punches, more variations and better combinations. I smell a blow out in this one.

 

Iron Mike is too new school.

Rocky is tailor made for him and while the first round may produce fireworks, Rocky wouldn't be able to keep up with his pace. Too much, and you can forget about him ending it all with one punch. Broken down and out by the 10th round, Iron Mike TKO.

 

I Mite b in 1 minority ,
Howevr, I do not think Mr. Iron Mikey ,
cud ever d3@1 w/ 1 Offensive
B3@st similar , 2 Marciano .


Plz do keep in mind , I do love Iron Mikey . He was

1 epitome of , GR8 KNOCKOUT ARTIST .

Howevr , he cud not handle Rocky "s presure ,
face,
it m8s .

 

4 things 1) Mike never got off the floor to win, 2) next he only once KO'd a man OH excuse me TKO'd a man after the 8th round (Jose Ribalta) 3) never fought beyond 12 rounds 4) folded when he could not intimidate = Buster Douglas,Evander Holyfeild 2X, Danny Williams, Kevin McBride, I'm not gonna mention Lennox because he took quite a shellacking ...Tyson was my favorite fighter since the 80's but those 4 factors spell fail against the Rock, Tyson started a bit faster but Marciano was not a catchers mitt or a punching bag,he punched back and he punched unorthodox and awkward, another factor would be heart and stamina ...Marciano by KO im thinking after the 8-9th

 

So, getting knocked down is now an accolade? Mike KO'd modern sized, real heavyweights not merely the best that Providence, Rhode Island could provide on any given weekend.

Perhaps because of the 40 modern sized heavies he faced pre incarceration, only 5 lasted past the 8th round. I suppose he should be penalized for dispatching his foes so quickly.

If Tyson had had as short a career as Marciano he would have been retired after the second Ruddock fight. Over. Only Douglas beat him before that. Turn the coin and say that Marciano had an 11 year career (as did Tyson against Holy) and faced Sonny Liston. How might that have ended up? Or a 17 year career (as did Tyson against Lewis) and faced Ali? Prognostications on that one?

The term is "sample size". Marciano had tiny arms and a tiny career.

Tyson KO4.

Marciano, the slow, attrition puncher, could simply not deal with the Blitzkrieg of power and speed that was Tyson.

 

Tyson was too big. I see this fight like Tyson vs. Marvis Frazier.

 

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no getting off the floor to win deserves accolades

If we could fatten up a few guys from the 50's with weight training and needles I suppose their chins would get stronger...Nah

Marciano did not look slow in the mix, he let his hands go pretty well when in his punching range..Tyson fought from the peak a boo with a Dempsey tweak so he was in a ready to punch position while Marciano leaned back and made his target something you had to reach for and get caught, different approach

Tyson started young so he had a good record building start but when put into the ring with an opponent that possessed the element of real heart (Douglas showed once) Evander showed numerous times but 2x vs Tyson, Danny Williams, McBride, and unfortunately this was a test that Tyson failed and IMO Marciano would bring that element. In fact many fighters from the 50's had that element Charles,Walcott,Layne to name a few but Marciano had the will to go with it and it added to the element of heart

Marciano was a smart man and he would perceive what was in front of him the dangers and the weakness and do what he had to do to win

Marciano by KO about the 9th

The Element a huge factor

 

A primed and focused Tyson was never knocked down... This is a prime for prime discussion is it not? Stopping one fighter past the 8th round does not determine the outcome of this match, and no way does this fight go past 12. In all the fights that Tyson "folded" he was not at his best.

Like I said, Iron Mike is too new school. You combine that speed and explosiveness against what would be a Cruiserweight today and it's game over. The fight game changed a lot since the 1950's and Rocky's style is not going to defeat a force like this. A severe disadvantage Marciano would be at.