Marciano vs. Tyson

If anything Tyson's inside game was pretty average.

 

Mike was the last of the old school

 

Not as much as never visiting the floor in the first place.

Bonecrusher, Berbick, Holmes, Ruddock, Williams, Thomas, Tucker, Bruno, Stewart were fat? No, they were huge, elite heavies, a breed that was not known in Marciano's day. And Tyson dismantled them.

Are we really going to compare Marciano's hand speed (and accuracy) to Tyson's? Completely different leagues on both counts. Completely different.

You are referencing fights that occurred in Tyson's 11th through 23rd years of his career. You realize that Marciano only had a 7 year career in total, right? How would we speak of Marciano had he faced Liston, Williams, Ali or Frazier? Marciano gets a pass because his window was narrow. He snuck into a depleted division that was dominated by old, used-up light heavies and got out before the next generation could come along. Opportunistic is the best way to describe it.

Tyson KO4

 

Quote" Seamus" Not as much as never visiting the floor in the first place.


most of Tyson's opponents were afraid of him but even a nut like Mitch Green made Tyson look average because he was not intimidated, Green couldn't fight for **** but he was crazy...Evander had trouble stopping former middleweight Bobby Cyz but in his next fight he put Tyson on his ass as did Buster Douglas and No Mike was not good at getting up and yes he was past it vs Williams and McBride but the quit came out, you say Tyson never visited the floor in the first place but indeed he did, never to get up to win

despite your infatuation with size, although Mike was only 5"9-5"10 tops but muscled and roided IMO Marciano takes his heart and the quit comes out again

 

do you mean the Cleveland Williams that Bob Satterfield KO'd in 3, as far as Liston,Ali and Frazier, Marciano does well in my opinion and a great match up with Ali as would Walcott and Charles against that group and Louis pretty dominant

 

There was a reason Tyson's opponents were scared of him. He was KO'ing everybody in emphatic fashion. Not just the local tough guy at the corner Providence bar but giant top flight heavyweights who were never seen in Marciano's time.

And where once did I mention Tyson's size in this thread? Please point me back in that direction. The distinct advantages I mentioned were POWER, HANDSPEED and STRENGTH.

Oh, and he was also quite a bit bigger.

And again, you are not addressing the fact Marciano has such a small and pathetic sample size at heavyweight. A mere seven year career and only a 4 at the top level. You are pulling out fights from Tyson's 11th, 17th and 20th year of pro fighting. Can even you not see the disparate standard you are setting? Does it really trouble you that much that Marciano was but an opportunistic flash in the pan whose best talent was good career management and knowing when to quit?

End thread

 

This is comparable to putting a 1953 Corvette in a drag race with a 1990 Corvette. There not gonna be much to discuss.

Tyson by ownage.

 

Tyson wins, thats all there is to it, too big, too strong, packs to big of a punch, and he is way to fast.

 

He knocked Mitch Greens teeth out in a street fight with a sucker punch, i know Mitch Green from around the NY area, runs around high shaking down gas station and convenience stores and as far as the list above Tucker rocked Mike in one of the early rounds and kept him at bay for the most part but Tucker was not really a power guy, Thomas was already back on smack before the Berbick fight, the rest of the list including Bruno were limited.....My point is Holyfield, Douglas, and the rest took his best and came back and the flaw in Tyson's armor cracked wide and he folded, not everyone with just heart could beat him but a very good fighter with some Pop and heart opened that crack

 

Haha Bruno??? He was scared shitless!!?? He was famed for being scared shitless against everyone?? Especially the second time - I don't think I've seen a fighter more scared shitless?? And he was scare the first time?? Plus there was the problem of him not knowing how to fight and freezing when hit by anything other than a jab?

As for the others ?? Holmes made no attempt at any offense he simply ran when he wasn't grabbing and trying to tie Mike up - he was never a fighter anyway?? He was strictly a boxer?

Tyrell Biggs!!??? He was scared out of his wits!!?

Ticker also ran alnight save for the one reflex uppercut he threw by accident?

Angie Dundee was tearing strips off Pink alnight for fighting like a klutts!! Or whatever word he used???

Berbick was also all over the place and incapable of fighting with Tyson

Tillis did about the best Of any of them and that's not exactly something to shout about when you're trying to make a case for fighting it out with a Rocky Marciano??

Green took one helluva shellacking so again all false bravado - it wasn't like the guy was coming after Tyson??? If none of them really went out Tyson with the kind of conviction Marciano would - those boxer types simply followed the mould at the time of I don't have a prayer other than to run and use long jabs with half an eye on the escape route each time they even threw a punch??

 

Tyson turned Pro in 1985 his first loss was in 1990, that his 5th year as a pro, he then had 9 fights from 1990 to 1996 (but I think he had a 3 year vacation during that period) and other than the 2 Rudduck fights, it was Stewart,Tillman, Peter McNeeley Jr.,Buster Mathis Jr.,Frank Bruno,Bruce Seldon, then lost to Evander at the end of 1996 and the beginning of 1997

Tyson then took a 2 year vacation and came back to beat Botha,1 round NC with Norris,Julius Francis KO 2,Lou Saverese 1 rd, Andrew Golota(scared) 1 rd. then his big win against Brian Neilson in 2001, but from 2002 till 2005 he only won 1 of 4 fights and it was against Cliff Eitene while losing to Lewis,Williams and McBride

So if we eliminated the unproductive years and take his career from the time he turned pro in 1985 till 1997, he would still have the loss to Buster Douglas 1990 (who I was never impressed with before or after) and 2 losses to Evander but the point that sticks out to me is that in those 3 fights it was against fighters who on that particular night for Douglas (loss of his Mom) and Holyfeild (being who he is) brought out the crack in Mike\

Mike had some good tools and like Rooney and Patterson had fast hands from that peeaboo style tweaked with a Dempsey crouch and he brought power in both hands, he was a breathe of fresh air for me after watching the lazy under achieving and un-unifying heavyweights of the 80's and I loved him for it and while era's and training methods and (TOOLS) roids were added it brought both positive and negative effects.

Marciano by size and length and measurement was not impressive but he fought some very skilled fighters the best of his era and will, power and stamina and was schooled by the short master Charlie Goldman and last but not least he had heart& lack of fear and IMO that heart and lack of fear & will would be the element to bring out the crack in Tyson again

by the way vacations dont count as time served and I count at least 5 years off on a quick look so before you quote it as years fought i think you should deduct years off

By the way Marciano did start late at 24 y-25 yrs old but he fought for 8 years but from 1951 when he KO'd 34-1-1 Rex Layne till 1955 Archie Moore he fought the top contenders of the time and defended his title 6 times 5 of then being against the # 1 contender, so I dont think we can blame him for getting out on top after cleaning out the division, its not a crime to quit at 33 when you still have 4-5 fights left.

 

Marciano had three years military service and then needed to see that he wasn't going to be a baseball player. And he retired because he wanted to, not 'cause he needed to.

I'm not saying Marciano would have had a long career in any circumstances, and he did take a few years to develop; but his career should be taken in context.

I wonder how it might have affected Tyson's career to go into the military at twenty and get out at 23?

 

In all honesty, I think Tyson makes it look easy. He started so fast. Marciano was pretty light as far as heavyweight champions go and he'd be walking right into him.