Marciano vs. Walcott - Why is Marciano faulted...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Feb 13, 2008.


  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    For fighting an "old" Walcott when that was the prime model?

    It's pretty commonly known that Jersey Joe took a long time to reach his peak, and was a Bernard Hopkins like fighter in that regard, accumlated skill and all.

    He was never better than he was when he finally found his niche and put all of his time towards fighting, and that means he was an older fighter when he became a complete package.

    Even a casual glance at his record proves this.
     
  2. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In all honesty, I think he's only faulted by those who don't know better.
     
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Does anyone feel that Walcott DIDN'T become vastly better with age?
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Here's the trouble. Walcott never won another fight after he fought Marciano, hence we don't know how much he had left. Walcott had many children to feed. If he had something left after the back to back losses to Marciano, it is likely he would have fought some more. The purses were there for him.

    There comes a point where age catches up to everyone. I do think Marciano beat an older but still dangerous Moore. We know this because Moore went on to win many matches after he meet Rocky.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Absolutley the pertinant point.

    Either Marciano finished Walcott - fair shout - or Walcott was well into his slide when he took Marciano on. Hence the criticism. It's just a matter of perspective.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think its a bit of both.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think so too.
     
  8. Chaney

    Chaney Mystery and Imagination Full Member

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    I think that a number of fighters were never as good again, after going through the Marciano gravel crusher.
     
  9. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not to drag the point out, but I'm sure you've all seen the entire fight.
    Tell me Walcott fought like a 37 year old in there. He was magnificent.
    If that version of Walcott had shown up in his other fights, he'd have had a lot more wins on his record, imo.
     
  10. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Fists of fury, I agree.
    Walcott came out blazing, and fought a heck of a fight, a HARD fight, in there. There's no reason in my mind to believe this was a diminished version of Walcott. He looks the same as he did when he KO'd Charles for the title.

    McGrain admits to underrating Marciano.
    Mendoza will tell you Corbett was near his best when he fought Jeffries, based on second-hand accounts, so I dont think he would argue against what we can see on film.
    Of course, anyone is free to say Walcott LOOKS diminished against Marciano if that's what they see, but I dont see it.

    Walcott went in there to punch Marciano out, and he looked strong through the first 12 rounds attempting to do so, he looked strong and capable up until the final punch.
     
  11. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Louis was 37 when he lost to Marciano, and people love to cite that he was ahead on the cards and looked good against Marciano, despite it being his final fight, and the fact that he was knocked out.

    Walcott was known for more for becoming a better fighter with age and looked far better than Louis against Marciano, at the same age as Louis was.

    Contradiction?
     
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Russell, just to point out that Louis was far from ahead officially in the Marciano fight. I can't recall the exact scores, but I'm pretty sure he was at least two rounds down on all cards.
     
  13. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Gah, my mistake there then.
     
  14. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    True, but when looking at the record of a guy who's a 49-0 world heavyweight champion with 43 knockouts, 7-0 with 6 KOs in world championship fights, people who aren't knowledgeable about him, can't accept that he really was what he seems to have been, or just plain don't like him have to latch onto anything they can get ahold of. The way some peoples' minds work, when they see a record as stunningly flawless as Marciano's, especially attached to a well-liked white American heavyweight, the words that immediately jump to mind are "hype-job" and "overrated," and they proceed from the premise that Marciano falls into these categories- thus, when they see that he won the title from and defended it against a guy in his late 30s and also defended against a guy in his late 30s to early 40s, they see their hypothesis as being confirmed. People who are more knowledgeable than they, but simply refuse to accept Marciano or have personal dislike of him seem to cover their ears and shout "WRONG! WRONG!!!" when presented with the evidence.

    "Age-of-opponents" is kind of an eye in the storm for people who want to exclude Marciano from the elite of all time to take refuge in.
     
  15. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Marciano was up 4-3, 4-2-1 and 5-2 on the scorecards going into the eighth round against Louis.