Marciano with modern training

The Klitschko's are fit 6'6.5 & 6'8 men and they fight under 250lbs usually closer to 240 and they are upper body muscled that is a great weight for them but Areola,Perez,Stiverne,Solis, are 20 + lbs overweight Povetkin less overweight but usually not in top form vs Vlad he was conditioned better

 

185-195 lb HWs were very common in Marciano's time, almost the average for the contenders, it was the deal, but it's just not a practical weight to shoot for these days.

Everyone in that range is either boiling down to LHW or coming in at the CW limit of 199 or heading to HW.

Rocky fighting in modern times at 185, just isn't happening, and I'll leave it at that.

I think Rocky has a bigger frame than Adamek and Chambers, who I really don't believe are over 6 foot.

[url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ASOmqJCRoGQ/TSyoZF97W_I/AAAAAAAAABs/j2izX1woIQE/s1600/1564pTomasz_Adamek_1353001.jpg[/url]

[url]http://www.dnjournal.com/cover/2007/images/lelandhardy/fasteddie.jpg[/url]

[url]http://2l7kr2xl4t7418ewd3w7ur01d2m.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rocky-marciano.jpg[/url]

 

Boxing, as many sports, has changed. PEDs, supposedly forbidden, have made it so.

PEDs have made men such as the Klitschkos--who would not have been as good with their mere natural talents in past eras--modern wonders.

Nevertheless, the best of the past--with their old-school training--still beat the best of this cheating era, "enhancements" and all.

Marciano probably not, though. His frame was too small and--for him--the modern combination the Klitschkos possessed, of natural size dimensions plus added weight and power due to PEDs, would prove insurmountable.

But I draw the line at Marciano. From Dempsey and Frazier on up, the greats of yesteryear still whip these modern robots.

 

Adamek is a legit 6-2, 75" reach. Chambers is 6-1 75" reach. And neither has found a spot atop the division.

Rocky was 5-11, had a 67" reach and was all torso with narrow shoulders. I don't see a frame there that could carry 210 and effect his chosen game plan.

[url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Vs1wAretM0Y/T1JdPKd8vBI/AAAAAAAAFIM/2d310LJM4jg/s1600/Rocky+Marciano+November+1953+AVEDON.jpg[/url]

 

well first of all rocky was only 5'9" and entered camp at 202lb (9min_10 seconds into the video). i disagree, i do not think he would have resembled a bowling bowl at all,there was room on his chest, shoulders and upper arms to easily carry a muscular 210lb.some bench presses,curls and triceps work would be all that is needed.would he have been better at 210lb? who knows,i guess if it made him even stronger,then yes. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0UAzjlwkEo[/url]

 

All the tales of the tape I have seen say 5-10, 5-10 1/2 and 5-11.

Bench presses, curls and tricep work are great for body builders but HORRIBLE for boxers. Absolutely horrible. That would be useless muscle if he put it on.

And the fact is that Marciano was a slow, methodical power puncher. He certainly didn't need to be any slower. The only undersized power punchers that work in the heavyweight division are guys with speed.

 

No Klitchko is 6' 8", look it up. And ROcky had good nutrition, so with the same genetics he would be the same height.

Seamus I think you meant to say (like Frazier was) that ROcky was all lower body, not torso.

You may well be correct about the effect of modern weight training on Rocky, he did not have a very big frame, but a bit over 200 might be a good balance-when fighting bigger guys.
I think it is an extreme & untenable position that all weightlifting-regardless of other training to keep mobility speed & flexibility-is bad for fighters.

Prime you have some damn fine points. I hope it is true that the best old school guys beat the best creaters.

 

Taking on board what everyone has said, in answer to the actual thread "marciano under modern training" I think would still equal a great fighter. He was an exceptional fighter and an exception to the rule then and there is no reason why he could not be an exception to the rule now. Naturally smaller men are bigger now. Training has changed.

I don't think Marciano would be as great now as he was then..but I don't think he would need to be. There are enough belts for any decent fighter to reach some kind of status. Rocky won't find a Charlie Goldman but he would find modern training methods and the modern cycle of early Tv exposure and be unable to develop in quite the same way without the microscopic scrutiny. Rocky was very much a product of the system of his era but the chore elements were there and he was able to reach his fullest potential as all great fighters do.

The trainer he found would be deciding on what division would get the best out of young Marciano in much the way a new trainer would now look at a young Mike Tyson, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis before assessing his chances against 240lb champions in the way modern trainers looked at Micheal Moorer, Chris Byrd, Adamek and Tua.

Would they all be as great? Proberbly not .......but it works both ways. "Superheavyweights with old school training"? What would they look like???? And would they be as good?

Would the superheavyweights of today have to adapt to fighting in another era?

 

I think Bowe and Lewis looked like better technicians under 230. They could move better, better balance and sharper than they were at heavier weights. They could get off combinations step off, move and look like better fighters. They rested less, held less. I am not saying they were less effective heavier because they still won fights but it was by another route and another game plan. They just looked more versatile that bit lighter. They were big men for sure. Maybe 225 was as low as they could go.

Training trends changed and the division changed.

 

Marciano had a 38 " chest I was bigger than that when I left school, addng weight to him slows down an already slow fighter..He would not benefit from added muscle.

 

Thanks, but this stuff is not rocket science. Don't be so hard on yourself.

Like I said before at the heavier weight Lewis was just as effective. he was also older, more experienced and that would have made him that bit harder to beat anyway once he could control the pace of a bout. The weight in itself was not responsible for any improvement. Perhaps taking less weight off was harder to do once he got older but with the division becoming slower he adapted this to suit the situation in a way that prolonged his career?

Older fighters would get found out in the old days because they could not keep up, but once the division itself slowed the younger men down actual experience came into play. Isn't this why the Klit brothers are doing so well now?

 

But it's a slower division. He's not going to have to eat lightning and crap thunder to take on today's oafs. All fighters are carrying more than they would under traditional old school methods. It evens things out a bit. Rocky would still be short but he would not be slower than anyone else.

 

Even with an added 25lbs he would still be a little short guy who was slow of foot , short of reach, and prone to cuts.