Marciano's Body Frame could easily be Tua and Tyson

What is this based on?
Goldman had a whip ready to lash at Rocky if he even touched a pear or an apple.
He had to sneak a few bananas under his bed during training camp because he was so hungry.
The man was trained down to the maximum limit.

 

You guys think Rocky can be bigger than Damon McCreary?
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/45596

Or Toney?
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/1437

 

Would've been interesting to see how much good weight someone like Shilstone could've put on him.

 

Depends.

He gained weight for Shkor, lost weight for Lowry, than gained weight again for Wilson and Simmons.

The point is there was no magic number for the Rock, he trained for the opponent.

 

There is a magic range of numbers for all mature athletes. 220, 215, 205 and 200 were not in this range for Marciano.

 

One last time. The real Marciano was a product of his times, who was trained to chase down the likes of Ezzard Charles in 15 round fights. There was no need for him to come into fights over 200 pounds.

We were discussing a hypothetical situation in which Marciano would be matched against contemporary era Super Heavies that will be looking to maul him. He would not be cutting down to 184 in this situation, he would likely be coming in as heavy as possible, in the 50s that was 193, in 2017, it might be well over 200.

This isn't a fantasy fight thread where we are just dropping Marciano from the 50s into the ring. At least not from my perspective, I'm looking at this as practical analysis. Like I already said, I don't think Maricano or even Tyson would be turning Pro and spending their entire careers at heavy in 2017. Not because the division is so great, but no promoter, manger, or trainer would want to see their fighter give up every physical advantage in every fight.

I think Maricano and Tyson could beat anyone today in a one off fight, but to give up 20+ pounds in weight every damn night, that's asking too much of your fighter. These guys were always short for the division, but their weight at least was average for their era. That wouldn't be the case today.

If you told Maricano and Tyson they had to fight Anthony Joshua in 5 months, they would not be coming in at career lows. They would pull a Holyfield, hire Strength trainers, and be looking to get as heavy and strong as possible. Tyson and Marciano might have better overall stamina being at 187 and 214 respectfully, but coming in that light against a 250 pound monster, they would get wore out very quick in the clinches.

 

You’ve alluded to this before— are you referring to any sources in particular? When did this happen? Any idea whether this was a well documented thing throughout his career?

 

Yeah it's from the book Corner Men.

In 1953, Goldman said that he and Marciano rarely disagreed.
"The only arguments me and Rocky ever have is over that eatin' between meals.," Goldman told The Ring. "I'll go up into his room and under his pillow I'll find a bunch of bananas he's hidin' from me."

 

Right off the bat you are insinuating that Marciano would be slower were he heavier, that he got lighter to chase down an ancient Charles (Funny how I remember Tyson being plenty quick at 218). How much slower did he really need to be? What would be easier pickings than a short, stumpy heavyweight who was even slower than the 185 pound Marciano? And one who would assuredly lack the flexibility that the lighter Marciano used in his extreme ducking? And I guess you are going to insist that Marciano's workrate would increase with the extra weight?

Marciano was at his perfect fighting weight in the 185-190 range. That is proven. What you are doing is engaging in fantasy.

 

What I said was " There was no need for him to come into fights over 200 pounds." I didn't insinuate anything, that means what it says.

You think 32 is ancient? Hell, Marciano himself was 31 in the rematch. Nice hyperbole, it really makes you sound smart.

Weight gain may not necessarily make you slower or less flexible, I already commented on that.

I also already gave my thoughts on the sacrifice of stamina for weight gain against bigger physical opponents, and pointed out that Maricano himself saw a need for this.

What's with the Strawman BS? I have yet to figure out why people do this on message forums, we aren't swaying an audience and everything we say is written out in a thread. It's pointless in this setting.

It's a speculative thread. Why come into a speculative thread and remind people they are speculating...I mean, what do you get out of that?

 

So Marciano is this magical creature who is for some arbitrary reason confined to 185-190lb?
I don't understand. If the man gained 30lb, his legs would fall off or something?

 

You are proving my point!

 

No an already slow fighter would become slower and lose stamina .Marciano traded on being fitter than all his opponents give him another 30 lbs he becomes Arreola without the height and reach.

 

I swear this place is a bodybuilding forum disguised as boxing.

Why are people here so obssessed with a fighter's ability to pack on muscle mass?
(I include myself in there too, I'm guilty as the next man.)

It's nonsense.
Marciano was a fighter, not a bodybuilder.
We don't judge boxers on how much muscle they have. We judge them on boxing and fighting, inside the ring performance.
It's crazy that boxing's been infected by this bodybuilding philosophy.
Muscle mass has virtually nothing to do with boxing.

Can BODY WEIGHT be an advantage ?
Yes, of course.
But there are STILL far more boxers trying to get down in weight than there are boxers striving to bulk up !
In spite of bodybuilding mindset, in the real world more boxers are failing due to being too heavy and finding success by going DOWN in weight, not up !

 

In fact it probably makes more sense to imagine how good Tua could have been if he'd trimmed down to 200 pounds, rather than asking Marciano to carry extra baggage.