Bill, Ya that is the video I wanted too see. is it on youtube? No worries, we all have strong opinions. when we discuss legends, sometimes things get very emotional because fans are attached to certain fighters.
In general terms: Patterson was a 175 pounder who filled out to 185. Marciano was a 200 pounder who sweated down to 185. Incidentaly John L Sullivan ossilated between 185 lbs and 215 depending on whether he was fighting a London Prize Ring fight or a four round Queensbury bout where he stood to loose $ 1000 if he failed to knock his oponent out inside four rounds.
Defintley Janitor, Look at the difference in there shoulder size. Rocky was 43 when this video was taken too
Rocky was a real butterball in 1965, wasn't he? What do you think he weighs there, 250+? His head is massive. So Rocky really ballooned up when he wasn't fighting? That's not what I heard. Why would he sweat down to 178-184 pounds? Wouldn't that really drain a man who walked around at 200+ lbs? I will do some looking into this. If it's true, it doesn't make a lot of sense. On another ntoe, it has always amazed me how Patterson could successfully fight all those big heavyweight given how small he was. It makes his accomplishments all the more significant. Truly amazing.
Listen Marciano, would have to body build to obtain the mass of Mike Tyson and David Tua. End of.. Naturally, Mike Tyson and David Tua are bigger MEN!!!! Plus they have bigger frame's..!
Yes, it is sometimes difficult to get a measure on the size of a man. For example, if you compare Marciano's overall body size to the likes of Foreman, in particular the Foreman who came in around 215 to 220 in his prime (as some say), one might be surprised. Sorry I don't have those measurements at hand, but if I remember Marciano and Foreman are comparable in neck, chest, biceps, forearm, wrist, waist, thighs and calves. I mean there is very little difference between them mostly an inch or less except for the chest. Still though, Marciano is very close. Even in fist size. I think this gives us an idea of how big Marciano actually was. There leaves the matter of height and reach which, clearly, Foreman has on him. But outside of that they are very similar. I guess this adds up to a highly compact man in Marciano. And as Janitor says it would be easy to imagine a slightly more muscular Marciano coming in at 210 or 215 or slightly higher. And he wouldn't sweat off the muscle weight with all his training. Nor do I believe he would lose his effectiveness. What he would gain in power, I'm not sure since I believe his power was the result of factors that aren't exhausted by merely focusing on his weight. But the extra muscle probably wouldn't hurt. So what I'm saying is all we have to do is imagine Foreman without that extra height and we have something close to a Marciano at 185. A fairly short (under six feet) strong man, low to the ground with much leverage in his punches, a man who tended to shove around all those he fought. So given all that, I believe a fight with Tyson would be excellent and extremely hard to call especially given Tyson's explosiveness in the day he had the will and determination and on his best night. But how well he would be able to stand up to a 185 or 190 Marciano, I don't know. I think, given the track record Marciano had, ie, his relentless pursuit, his power, his true KO percentage and not mere TKOs, I would finally have to put my money on him. But really, an updated Marciano brought into time twenty or thirty years later would be a terror. I think I have much less doubt then.
as a amatuer Tyson fought in the 200 lb division not superheavy...he put on weight and muscle but there was weight traing and something else that helped him gain muscle...anyway if it was not steriods, Mike certainly suffered from the rage part
Visually I don't see it. He could of been bigger, sure, maybe 200-205 cut, but he was destined to be a small heavyweight. Probably a cruiserweight today.
Besides being four inches taller, a reach 13" longer and 35 pounds heavier , Foreman 's chest was 3" wider, his bicepts 2" bigger, his neck 1/2" thicker, his calf 2.5" bigger, his thigh 3" bigger and his forearm 1.5" bigger ... not exactly the same size or that close ...
The origina argument doesn't stand for me...by that argument Joe Calzaghe could realistically compete as a heavyweight... He's 5'11" and has a 73" reach...it only tells a part of the story...
I just did some research and Marciano's measurements across several fights, including Matthews and Charles, were 5'11", 67" reach, 16 3/4 neck, 39 chest, 32 waist, 12 forearm, 14 biceps, 11 1/2 fist. It was noted in one article that Matthews and Marciano were almost identical except that Matthews had a longer reach. For the Moore fight, Marciano's measurements were 5'11 1/2 (he grew, I guess, but then so did Moore, who was 5'11" for Marciano and 6' for another fight, but usually 5'11"), 40 1/2 neck, 35 waist, 13 1/2 forearms, 15 1/3 biceps, 12 1/2 fists. Actually, these measurements are out of wack with other measurements. Rocky's fists were 11 1/2 not 12 1/2, etc. Some other interesting things I discovered. Why, if Marciano walked around fat as a butterball, as some claim, did the Associate Press report in December 27, 1953 that Marciano weighed 193 lbs. He wasn't scheduled to start training until February 3 for the Nardico fight (which never happened). He hadn't fought since September 1953, and wouldn't fight again until June of 1954. He should have been enormous. Right? And why, if he trained down to fighting weight, would The New York Times report on September 13, 1952, that Marciano was trying to raise his weight 3 lbs for his Sept. 23 fight with Walcott? Why would a fighter who had to train down need to gain weight? Does anybody really believe that Marciano and Foreman shared measurements? I think you guys are professional smokeblowers. The **** is kneedeep in these threads. By the way, in reviewing material - God I love newspapers! - I found a great article by Joe Nichols right before the second Marciano-Charles fight. He said that Charles wouldn't make it out of the eighth round.