Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

All valid points.

The main limitation that I see with fighters like Toney, when they step up in weight, is that they can less aford to give up height and reach than a puncher. Once they are out-ranged they have to try and hang on the inside against a bigger fighter with more firepower (not a good situation for a technician), or end up on the end of a punishing jab.

The type of fighter best able to stand a large size diffarential would be an offensive fighter with devastating firepower who was neot easy to hit cleanly. Not Rocky Marciano, but perhaps sombody like Jack Dempsey or Sam Langford would be a prety good approximation.

 

I want to know other than Tyson and Lewis and Mike Weaver...Who was a dangerous puncher, Tua but he was hot and cold and 5"10 and Tyson may have been 5"11 and Weaver was 6"1 so are we talking about Foreman at 6"3 Lewis at 6"5 or is it the Klitschko's who are the biggest and the Best?....Which Big men were unbeatable Bowe? Heavyweights do more weight training these days but not so sure it helps there stamina or makes them hit harder. If Louis,Marciano or Walcott or Frazier were around today they may be doing more weight lifting(thus more muscled and Heavier) but not so sure it would enhance there punching power but there Look and strength would be better for pushing and holding. Marciano's best quality was his power, stamina, heart but if he was fighting today over the 12 rd route, he may have enough to gain some muscle ( Tyson gained 17lbs when he turned pro, he fought in the under 200lb limit in his olympic loss to Biggs) Louis,Dempsey,Frazier,Marciano could all punch up there with the best and that was there strength.

Funny but Larry Holmes was 6"3 but was KO'd 2 times in the Olympic final by 5"10 Nick Wells and even though he was old it was the 5"11 Tyson that devastated him in 4 in a brutal KO

I like the Klitschko's size and fitness and long amatuer experience but because of there size would the K's or Lewis be a lock to beat Ali,Louis,Dempsey,Marciano,Frazier,Walcott,Schmeling,Tyson or some of the borderline 6 ft or 200lb fighters becuae if you believe size is everything then Lewis and the Klitschko's are the best

 

i have long said that marciano and all those before him were bigger guys who boild down 20 or so natural pounds because thats how they trained. as a baseball player he was 210. joe louis was a big guy he peaked at 199 but had he trained today he would peak at 220 plus. i dont like 240 heavyweights it spoils the flow of a fight. natuaral 230 guys like lennox and bowe were beter under 240. bowe was once 218 and he was a big big guy.
on the subject of liston he had enormous advantages when he won fights. where as marciano was outweighed 27times and outreached 49 times. I know a lotta guys like sonny, i admit he was impresive, but its worth considering that liston never beat a single unbeaten opponent and guys who had good chins lasted the distance with him even though other guys like archie moore knocked them out. He only fought 3 guys who outweighed him and only kod one of them. then theres the ointment on his gloves and other controversys..

 

Some good points. I still see Liston blasting the Rock in a head to head match though. Good points nonetheless.

 

who beats who is an opinion, no one can prove either way. liston was a monster but he had as manny faults and failings as champs rated a lot lower than he often is. im sure thats because he has the tools and advantages to beat most head to head but his credentials are not that good fact wise.

 

Some guys look great until they get hit back. I am also a Big Fan of Tyson and I feel he was on his way to overcome some of the unanswered questions but once cus died and he broke away from the historians and went with King the writing was on the wall and the lower man took over.

At this point I have strong opinion that Liston was a front runner and when he faced a Dog with Balls (real balls) he gave up. I may get some slack but Evander was not a monster ( he showed that in the Cyz fight prior to Tyson but his Balls were a factor in his fight vs Tyson. Tyson sensed it and Evander felt his power and did not quit (a Big Factor)

Sonny Liston had the look, the thickness, the face but did not have what Marciano had it the ballsack department. I am in the strong opinion that this would be a big factor in a Marciano/Liston fight and why not Liston quit 2 times in his career and in reality never faces a PUNCHER like Marciano. Even Marciano's biggest underminers have to give him credit in the intestinal fortitude department and no one has an answer for Sonny quitting but I do...He did not have it ( the will to win and overcome) I think if he had fought Marciano this factor would have been revieled earlier.

 

I just don't see the fight lasting long enough in order for Marciano to make Liston want to quit. I believe this fight would end in quick brutal fasion with Liston being victorious. Of course this is mere speculation. There is also a possibility you are correct.

 

I don't see ordinary small fighters like Whitehurst, Welch and Marshall (x2) going the distance, or even Machen, and Marciano not having a chance to go the distance, also. And if it goes later into the fight, I don't see Liston doing very well.

 

So what chances do you give Rocky to slip enough of Liston's power shots to pull off a win?

 

Prime v prime, it would be very hard to decide though I might slide slightly toward Liston. If you are talking about Marciano waiting around a few more years to fight Sonny, I think Sonny takes it. Marciano was not getting better when he retired and his body was beginning to betray him.

 

Earnie Shavers had top end power too.

Top end power is meaningless unless you're able to deliver it...

 

Marciano was able to deliver enough top end power to win every one of his 49 fights. Lets face it, he never won a fight by being the prettiest, most dazzling skillful boxer in the ring.

In 43 out of 49 fights, he delivered his power conclusively, including against very slick and elusive fighters.

 

KO'ing a sting of BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, ole men, and No Hopers in the weakest of HW eras doesn't impress me....

 

It was nowhere near as weak as the era that immediately followed it. Not even close.

 

atsch:-(