Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

THere's a huge difference between beating b + / a- competition and saying he defeated weakn opposition. While I do not feel Rocky's opposition earned him all time greatness of the highest level, he did defeat extremely tough opposition in the scheme of things ...

 

Rocky thought Patterson would defeat Liston didn't he?
Sonny's good friend,Joe,didn't. Rocky did.

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Strange, Rocky thought Floyd would beat Sonny, but thought Ali wouldn't? Did he have something against Ali or did he just grossly underrate his abilities?

 

I think a bit of both. I know he didn't like the way Ali was constantly running his mouth, and at the time it was not really known how great the young Clay truly was.

 

Not strange at all. Virtually nobody picked Ali against Liston. Maybe 2 sports writers out of 40 or so did.

 

True, that seems to be the most plausible explanation.

 

IMO what make's it strange is that he picked Patteron to win according to Arka.

 

I read it in Bob Mee's Boxing:Heroes and Champions.Rocky among many others picked Patterson,primarily I think because of his superior speed.Remember what Floyd did to Ingo? Maybe,it was a bit of ego on Rocky's part as well.He wasn't particularly enamoured of Liston and saw in Patterson a gritty,smaller heavyweight similar to himself.

I've read of Joe Louis' trainer after Blackburn,Manny Seamon ,picking Clay to defeat Liston. He liked Clay's work ethic in the gym and saw in Liston a man who made the same technical mistakes again and again,thereby showing himself as arrogant and not being prepared to listen to advice. I don't remember him mentioning Clay's advantages in youth and size,but he could have factored those in,as well.

 

Patterson froze against Liston but don't believe Marciano was picking Patterson or Louis Liston, that was the way they promoted fights back then to stir up interest

 

I lived in that era and no one really thought Clay was going to beat Liston, there was a lot of promotion and even SSR got into the act for Clay. No one really expected the man would struggled with Doug Jones and dropped by Cooper to beat Sonny but Sonny had the look and the shape but obviously not the heart or real toughness, some guys are givers not takers. Funny how when Floyd learned to relax how he was able to handle Ali,Ellis,Quarry,Bonavena,etc. without showing a real weak chin and when he went down he bounced up and got back in the fight. Floyd WAS A KID WHEN HE WON THE TITLE and he was not really emotionally mature. He took the Liston fight against Cus's wishes and how much of that was in the back of his head. Sonny saw Patterson as a weak chinned Heavy because Floyd was dropped so many times as champ

 

In addition, Marciano's entire fighting style was developed for the purpose of beating larger fighters. I don't think he fought out of such a low awkward leaning crouch cause it was good for his back....


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbl1ly8vyrE[/ame]

 

Yet he couldn't take out Savold or Cockell. Hmm...

Marciano was a wear-them-down fighter. He looked impressive against Matthews (a small light heavyweight) and Walcott (knocked out on four previous occasions), but usually he had to exhaust his opponents by outworking them. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Hagler was a wear-them-down type, too. At the same time, when your opponents are aging or shopworn....

Marciano is overrated on ESB.

 

An understatement...

 

:rofl


Layne survives Satterfield's best

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKUlBPErrn0[/ame]


Layne stopped cold by Maricano

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5chxdyedNw[/ame]



Also, bringing up Walcott's knockout losses when he was a starving part time boxer is a mute point. The only fighters to stop him once he got proper training and nutrition were Marciano and Joe Louis, very good company. Savold and Cockell are often regarded as some of Rocky's worst performances in the spotlight, not the fairest guage of his power or abilities in general. In both instances he had health issues and was coming off lay offs against opponents he was heavily favored against....should these facts be took into account? Maybe Tyson's performances against James Tillis and Danny Williams are evidence of his lack of punching power? You've basically said the same thing. Of course this has all been beat to death thousands of times, not one of the more constructive or well thoughtout criticisms of Marciano but you have at least offered more than Hegrant and Naysayer.

 

I do think he gets made into something he was not in these parts. However, the more I study what he did in the ring via film, the more I am really amazed at his ring intelligence. The guy knew exactly what weapons he did and did not possess and enforced HIS rules of engagement. Really spectacular ring technician.