Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

20 title defenses, second only to the great Joe Louis.

How many defenses did Marciano manage?

 

Well he managed five against the curent #1 ranked challenger.

How many defences did Holmes manage against a top 5 ranked challenger?

Its not just the numbers its also the quality that counts.

 

Some prety average fighters proved that they could carry Holmses jockstrap.

 

LMAO at Suzie claiming Rocky was 205lbs in the ring, meaning he killed himself dehydrating 20lbs of water to make a no limit weight . I think this is Suzies way of admitting, Marciano wasnt big or strong enough to take on bigger quality HWs :hey

 

:goodA lot of Holmes defences were against guys with 10-12-13-14 and 15 & 16 fights, When he fought Weaver, Mike was 19-8 and 202lbs, Weaver had him hurt several times but he would not rematch Mike, and he would not rematch Norton,Witherspoon or Williams and he avoided a unification, with Page,Tate,Coetzee,Thomas and Dokes. Holmes fought David Bey 18-1 but Dave went on to lose 14 of his next 18 fights to give you an Idea of Holmes defence quality

 

What are you talking about?

Quality?

Marciano competed in the weakest of HW eras. BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and ole men litter Marciano's bloated record - and you want to talk about quality?

That's some good **** you're smoking over there, son...

 

SQ, you really post like a kid. Marciano hate after I have time and again called him a great fighter?

Bummy, we are envious of Rocky ? Pretty silly stuff.

 

HE Grant ...What are you talking about, I told you stay off the crack pipe dude..Envious?

 

Marciano's era was actually quite good compared to the one Liston went thru towards his championship, or that horrible 80's period that Tyson cleaned up... ****, Ezzard Charles, Layne, and old Louis and Walcott are still pretty f'n good. Not like Valdez, Machen, Tubbs, Thomas....etc.

 

atsch

You might want to re-read his post before you get cute. He said he estimated that Marciano could realistically beef up to 205 lbs if he was forced to fight at the modern heavyweight limit..not that he was rehydrating to 205 lbs in the ring. Again, what was it I said about the harsher Marciano critics not being the brightest bunch. You guys are not fairing well in this thread.

 

Not the most accurate guage but this should get the point across:

Italic are opponents he defended against around the timeframe.

Ring Rankings 1980

Champion: Larry Holmes
1-Mike Weaver
2-Gerry Cooney
3-Leon Spinks
4-Micheal Dokes
5-Gerrie Coetzee


Ring Rankings 1981
Champion: Larry Holmes
1-Mike Weaver(no rematch)
2-Gerry Cooney
3-Micheal Dokes
4-Greg Page


Year End 1982 (Ring)

Champion: Larry Holmes
1-Micheal Dokes
2-Mike Weaver
3-Gerrie Coetzee
4-Renaldo Snipes
5-Trevor Berbic


Year End 1983 (Ring)

Champion: Larry Holmes
1-Gerrie Coetzee
2-Greg Page
3-Micheal Dokes
4-Pinklon Thomas
5-TimWitherspoon


Year End 1984 (Ring)

Champion: Larry Holmes
1-Pinklon Thomas
2-Greg Page
3-David Bey
4-Tim Witherspoon
5-Gerrie Coetzee

So many defenses...but certianly lacking in substance. Especially, when you consider who he was defending the title against during these gaps. I'm from Louisville and my family was good friends with Page, very sad how things worked out for him.

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

[url]

This content is protected

[/url]

This content is protected

1. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
2. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
3. [url]
   This content is protected
   This content is protected
   [/url]
4. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
5. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]

This content is protected

[url]

This content is protected

[/url]

This content is protected

1. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
2. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
3. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
4. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]

1954 [url]

This content is protected

[/url]

This content is protected

1. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
2. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
3. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
4. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
5. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]

1955 [url]

This content is protected

[/url]

This content is protected

1. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
2. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
3. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
4. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]
5. [url]
   This content is protected
   [/url]

 

SuzieQ: 'I estimated him coming into the ring at 205lb.' He may have meant Rocky could bulk upto 205lbs but it wasnt clear and to be honest I dont want to waste time reading too many of Suzies posts

 

Sorry about the envious quote Bummy if it was not from you. Must have confused Rocky's boys ...

I do find it interesting that Rockynuts can excused and justify him not fighting Valdez (his toughest matchup from a physical standpoint) based on Nino's ups and downs but then rip Holmes when the same can be said for his opponent selections. It's been gone over again and again but he criticism is mostly unjustified ....

 

Marciano/Valdez was in the works until Moore spoiled it by beating him convincingly twice. Not really the same as breaking up the division and dumping titles cause you refuse to face your number one contender. All of Marciano's challengers were ranked number one or number two, can we say the same for the opponents Holmes ran his win column up against? Dude, you can't even reach on this one...give it up. HOlmes started off great but his reign ultimately left a bad taste in everyone's mouth as he fractured the division into shards and denied an entire stable of top contenders their rightful title shots and deserved rematches while he defended against prospects and sadly real "no hopers."

Just one example:

"Page was the mandatory challenger for [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Holmes"]Larry Holmes[/ame] WBC world title, but rather than face Page Holmes vacated the belt he had held five years and instead took easy fights against [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Frank"]Scott Frank[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvis_Frazier"]Marvis Frazier[/ame], claiming these fights would earn him more money."