Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

when was lastarza over 190lb ??

 

There I go getting too cute...I somehow got him crossed up with Ezzard Charles when typing.

 

:goodno bother

 

Turpinr, this clown is pure amateur. The Lastarza misquote being the least of it .... Let him keep hanging himself every time he places a passage ... good for laughs !

 

Just to add, Walcott thought he had KTFO Rocky because he hit him with a shot that would have KOed most other guys. He turned around and was surprised to see an enraged Rocky standing there ready to go to war.

 

Good post, these guys are kids and just the fact that they will not respond to facts and some solid posters like Seamus and yourself is ovious that they are do not know the facts. These guys are worrried about teen age acne and what magazine they are going to wack off to. They would not be disrespectfull if they were face to face with you. Name calling is for kids or Cybor tough guys not real men. The facts that you layed out on Holmes are true but it does not matter to them, they have an agenda

 

:-(

You do realize an admitted typo is hardly a "victory for you" and does not devoid any of my previous points...but I guess you'll take what you can get at this point.

 

Yes, but who else worth a damn did Frazier beat as champ. Granted, even taking out a rusty Ali is a great accomplishment but Joe's rep is largely based on one night's performance. The Foreman performance also decent, but moreso than most of Rocky's prey, Frazier was undeniably past it.

Did Ali ever know how to throw a body punch? Did Lewis or Ali ever learn to go through an entire fight without holding and hitting? Did Young Foreman ever learn to pace himself? Did Dempsey ever learn that bob and weave aint the best defense in the world?

Fighters play to their strengths. Heavy use of a jab would not have done Marciano a whole lot of good with 67 inch reach.

My main criteria for ranking fighters over time is "how did he do against his contemporaries" as that is really the only tangible, result driven proof of a fighter's worth. I don't take stock of menacing stares, stories of hoisting five fatted calves to market, mugging for the camera with shitty poetry, arrest records, physique pose-downs, Michael Katz' opinion... or anything else as a higher criteria. Then I factor in the observable EFFECTIVE skills, the quality of opposition and other factors. And based on these criteria, Marciano ranks very high, not quite top-5 in my book but definitely top-10.

 

Thanks, keeps me sharp. Of all the times Hegrant misquoted me on this thread, I guess I owed him one.

 

:good:goodthere were a lot of things ali didn't do.the lack of body punching was the obvious one but i don't remember him throwing many left hooks either.

 

Ha, well except for the LaStarza bit. I'm at work and were in the middle of a blizzard so I guess I'm a little scatterbrained at the moment. Sadly, hegrant has been at this for years on many many boards...and much to his dismay Marciano is still a remembered all time great. Maybe one day he'll have to accept the facts but for now...he'll just laugh at a single typo as he gives his ***** victory strokes. He even claims I started the personal attacks when he was the one who began spontaneously responding to my posts with childish sarcasm and deliberate misquotes, getting things off on the wrong foot to begin with.

 

Bummy, I don't know why you think I have a dislike for Rocky as I clearly do not. I really don't like battling you as I believe you are a more mature fan and I respect that. No need to go to the cyber muscle crap, it's silly. I simply disagree with you. By the way, I'm no kid.

Goose, dick jokes. Sounds just right coming from a man of your talent and knowledge base.

Never came across you before but would not be surprised if you were one of clowns that got booted from the CBZ, the only other board I ever go on. Longivity and a consistant identity speak for themselves. You clearly have neither.

 

Do you really believe that?

If so, please elaborate...

 

:huh

This is perhaps the most cryptic non-sensible insult ever. The disdain is absolutely hilarious...like "I'm really raping your soul with these befuddling words."

 

[I do not view the Walcott, Charles or Moore that Rocky fought to be any better than the 42 year old Foreman or Holmes that Holyfield fought. I rate the Joe Louis that Rocky fought to be worse.
Hopkins is a generational fluke and still no one is calling the young fighters he is defeating (Taylor/Pavlik/Calzeghe) all time greats. Only in the case of Marciano is a fighter worshiped by some to the degree that level of opposition and physical handicaps are seen through such fantasy driven rose colored glasses.[/quote]
utter nonsence. shot or faded fighters can only kid their way through against younger, world class contenders they dont knock anyone good out. thats just a fact.
walcot knocked out a good champion to win the title! charles was not showing signs of slowing or fading in title defences.
when chalenging rocky, charles was explosive knocking out rated guys wallace and satterfield. regardless of his many fights ezz was a post war fighter (like rocky) and these two ko wins were the best he looked on film!
Moore is rated as a pound for pound great. evrything he acheived was during the streak he chalenged rocky. how can he be both great and past it at the same time? after losing to rock moore was knocking out guys liston could not. archie kod 4 heavyweights who beat chuvalo.
Thats not like holmes or foreman in their later careers at all.
sure foreman kod moorer with a 35lb weight advantage but george did not beat axel shulz, alex stewart, savarese, crawford grimsby but got the decisions. its a lot of losses to mediocre fighters when you look at it.
Holmes could still mess guys around but he wasnt knocking out rated guys. its completely difrent to charles, moore and wallcot.