Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

LOL. I was refering to your boxing board web alias and it's longevity. Maybe you should read before you write although that was funny.

 

Chokelab, how many quality contenders were Charles and Walcott flattening when they fought Marciano ? I appreciate your point about Moore but he was not at his career best at heavyweight? If so , where do you rate Patterson who defeated Moore right after , faster and more decisively than Rocky did ?

 

walace and satterfield were quality rated fighters when charles flattend them in his 2fights before facing rock. wallace was the guy who beat rocky in the amatuers and was so highly regarded he played joe louis in a film. satterfield was one of the best punchers of all time- he kod a peak claevland wiliams.
wallcot was flatening charles when he fought marciano- the best heavyweight in the world at the time it gets no beter. walcot also smashed the giant john shkor in 1 round (5 rounds quicker than rock did)shkor tore a hole in mauriellos face. walcott blasted hein ten hoff also.

patterson did an excelent job on moore. archie fought 11 times in the year since (his bussiest year ever) and did not look anyway near as fired up against patterson as he was against rock. moore was rightly the favorite in that fight. asked if he thought moore threw the fight floyd said "maybe he did. I KNOW i did not" a suprising thing for even the most modest of guys to say. Floyd could have said "no way did he throw it! that old guy was trying to kill me, he just just wouldnt stop coming!" but that would have been lying..

 

So you feel Moore tanked it against Patterson ?

 

no i dont think moore tanked it against patterson but lots of people at the time did. it was just a verry poor showing from archie, totaly lacking any kind of fire. patterson was very good in it. I just think that archie had far too many fights that year and completely burnt himself out.
the year arch fought rock he had far fewer fights and a longer camp. moore was still good til 61, its a good scalp for patterson- his best win on paper.
i rate pattreson 15 in my ATG heavyweight list beacuse he won key fights by ko. i mark him down for losing his title by ko to the only two rated guys he defended against.

 

That still makes no sense, but it does make for great beat poetry.

"When identity lacks longevity, let consistency speak......for itself. "


clap clap

"Thank you."

 

And here come more apologies for Marciano.

Unebelieveable...

 

I don't think apologies are necessary for a victory. Marciano gave Moore a terrible and savage beat down. The fact that afterward Moore did not last as long with Patterson means nothing. Every fight is different, every situation. Norton can break Ali's jaw and win, then get tetherball'd by Foreman. It doesn't mean Foreman is better than Ali.

Again, I agree that some people go overboard with Marciano, but he is a very, very elite fighter. There's a lot more room to underestimate him than overestimate.

 

Marciano beat down several all-time great fighters. If he wasn't any good then neither were Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore or Jersey Joe Walcott.

I do think Moore was more fired up for Marciano than Patterson. He had been taken to court for some severe accusations, which were later dropped, at the time of the Patterson fight.

Coming into the Marciano fight, Moore had pretty much cleaned out the heavyweight ranks, beating every single meaningful contender in the division.

 

exactly. marciano iritates a lot of genuine historians because casual sports fans who dont know anymore about boxing than say tennis or any other sport try to trump a boxing historians genuine knowledge with the boring 49-0 cliche.
the truth is marciano did prety much evrything a great champ should and as more and more footage of his contenders comes to light we see it was a stronger division than some experts think.
the two extreme views say either marciano was the best of all time or he was the most over rated of all time. as always extremists tend to be wrong on principle, the truth, i believe is in the midle of being the best ever and severly over rated. if you meet the extremists half way marciano is a great fighter which ever way you look at it - even if he did not have a 49-0 record!

 

The guy never lost.

What exactly is there to apologise for?

 

Isn't that the truth. What more does a guy have to do?

Hmm. I guess some need to fault the man. For unlike all the other so-called top ten heavyweights old Rocky was never seriously knocked on his ass, much less was he ever knocked out.

Nor did he ever lose on points. Much less did the man ever quit like a few others we can think of who are sometimes claimed to be top ten.

Yeah, old Rocky was just busy knocking everybody else out and winning.

You know, Janitor, sometimes I think there is an inverse relation between Rocky not requiring excuses for his ATG performance and the hysteria we see to find something to criticize.

 

There are a few issues.

Some are anoyed by the unwarantedly high praise heaped on him by a few, but they are verry few in number compared to the worst Tyson or Klitschko fans.

Some detractors attach an extremely unplesant racial element to it because Marciano was a white undefeated champion in an era dominated by black fighters.

Some genuinely admire him as a pound for pound wonder, but have trouble comprehending a fighter of his size and style being a factor against the bigger champions of history.

Between these groups it is hard to make the case for what he really was.

 

You can start with a nice long apology for all the BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and NO HOPERs that litter Marciano's record...