Marciano's Thoughts on Sonny Liston

Your post is wrong on so many levels that i don't know where to start. But i'll give it a shot.

Which you can say about any great fighter in history.

Mere accusations without substance. I can say exactly the same about Sonny Liston.

Within two sentences you managed to make two factual errors:

1. Walcott was 37 when he fought Marciano, not 39.

2. Walcott best performances all came between '45 and '53. The Fox defeat was eight years prior to that. He was racking up losses and barely beating anyone of note, still learning on the job and fighting part-time to support his family. How can you call that his prime??

3. Marciano also KO'd Walcott in one round.

Nitpicking that doesn't take the dynamics of a boxing career into account. Cooney stopped Young in 4 rounds, Young went the distance with Foreman, is Cooney a better puncher than Foreman? Collier knocked Tex Cobb out in one round, Shavers couldn't knock him out, does Collier punch harder than Shavers? Ingo KO'd Machen in one round, Liston couldn't stop him over 12 rounds.

Is the point getting through?

So far your arguments are laughable weak.

Why don't you answer these questions, which are facts, not opinions:

1. How many heavyweights have more one-punch KO's against rated opposition than Marciano?

2. How many boxers have stopped every single ranked opponent they ever faced? You can list ANY weight class, which says a lot, considering heavyweights only take up 5% or so of all boxers. That's a factor of 20, so if his power is not extreme than there should be at least 40 (that's only four boxers per weight class) fighters with that stat, right?

 

Marciano was KO'ing BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and NO HOPERs. Lets not pretend here that he was KO'ing all time P4P greats in 2 rounds. He wasn't.

Yet and still it took Marciano *13* rounds to KO a 39 y/o former dock worker. Tyson, otoh, KO'ed Holmes in 4 and Spinks in 1 - and I don't even consider Tyson among the top tier of HW punchers.

Please explain how the Lave stoppage is not relevant? It was in the very next fight after Valdez...

So? The fact still remains - Walcott KO'ed a 3 year younger Charles in less rounds than Marciano.

I guess we should put Walcott in the "extreme power" category too - right above Foreman and Shavers.

I'm going to agree with you here. However, Marciano is not among the elite @ HW when it comes to punching power.

So? Liston and Marciano were KO'ing BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and NO HOPERs. Am I supposed to be impressed?

Sorry but The Rock doesn't fall in the "extreme power" category for a HW. Not happening.

You wanna see a guy with "extreme power" @ HW - take a look @ George Foreman's record.

I just watched Foreman Cooney last night and all I can say is damn.

The man's punching power was ungodly...

 

Yeah, so ungodly that he never managed to stop a live opponent in his entire career. :rofl

 

Liston could be convinced to lose and he had a loss to a far lesser fighter than Marciano on his record leading into his prime. We've seen Liston lose and we haven't seen Marciano lose. That in itself makes it very tempting to dismiss the possibility that Marciano could lose to Liston. There was a point where I was certain Liston would beat Marciano....but I am banking on the intangibles here that Marciano would stand up to Liston, slip his jab and get inside to test Sonny's spirit and mettle. In the chin department, I don't see Liston as having the sort of chin that would weather rounds and rounds of punishment from somebody that would attack in volume relentlessly.

Where spirit and mettle are concerned, Liston has never convinced me that he had more in those departments than Rocky.

 

Go right ahead - still doesn't change the fact.

1. According to Boxrec.com, Walcott was born 1914-01-31 and fought Marciano I on 1952-09-23. Walcott was merely 4 months shy of his 39th birthday. IOW, an ole ass man..

2. Walcott was in his physical prime when he got KO'ed by Fox. Yet and still, he was a 39 year old man when Marciano got hold of him.

3. Walcott retired after the Marciano rematch - so what does that tell you? It tells me that Marciano KO'ed an ole fighter who was at the end of his career. Foreman KO'ed Frazier in 5 then did it again it 2. Frazier was in his physical prime, Walcott was an ole assed man but still managed to take the Rock 13 rounds and was up on the scorecards.

Foreman absolutley destroyed Frazier and Norton. Who has the Rock beaten of their caliber and in such fashon?

Nobody.

1. You assume Marciano has one-punch KOs against rated opposition. I do not. KO'ing a bunch of BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and NO HOPERs, which is essestially the bulk of Marciano's record, does not impress me.

2. Roland Lastarza

 

Even if that were true, it's still more impressive than the BUMs, STIFFs, Tomato Cans, and NO HOPERs who were taking Marciano rounds before getting KO'ed...

 

Lets not forget that Valez I belive stop Cockell on a cut, were Rocky had to beat Cockell down. Had the cut not happen, I belive Valez would have had a long night as Marciano did.

 

I seen Shavers go toe to toe with Quarry at the Garden and Get KO'd in 1

I also seen him lose to 5"9 Bob Stalling and get dropped for a nine count ans Stallings had quite a few KO Losses

I seen Light Heavyweight Vincente Rondon go the distance with Earnie right after a devastating 2 rd Ko loss to Light heavy Bob Foster

Ron Stander went toe to toe with Earnie and took him out in 5

Earnie had power but I did not see it in any of those fights and was more of a loser than a winner when he stepped up.

George Foreman Struggled with 35 yr old Gregorio Peralta and a 36 yr old Peralta and could not put Gregorio down in 2 fights

Foreman avoided all punchers until he fought Lyle (who was overated as a puncher and owned by Quarry) and George was out boxed and GF hit the floor by two of the boxers he met Young and Ali...I fear a 32 year old Charles hit harder than Young and Walcott hit harder than both

Lewis had serious offence but in fights vs Levi Billups and Zelco Marovic it seemed like his power had no effect

Tua had power but lost to all of the boxers he fought including Chris Byrd..Imagaine a Charles or a Walcott who could also punch

Rudduck had power but was stopped against the top punchers he fought


So only 4 guys make your list and I see you left out Joe Louis,Jack Dempsey,Max Baer,Bob Satterfield,Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier...so I guess leaving Marciano makes sense...you are only 13 years old

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqM_X01BnfA[/ame]

Looks like a puncher to me

 

I think that Rocky was one of the best. A guy with good power,good chin,a lot of will, a big tank and keeps his power for 15 is always going to be tough. Maybe people like a bit more flash in their boxers?

 

Bummy, no one took Shavers power. The defeats exposed his flaws which did exist but among them were not a lack of bone crushing power. The same can be said for Foreman 1. If your point is that Rocky hit like any of the men mentioned (Shavers, Foreman, Lewis or Tua) I respectfully disagree. Rocky was not in that class of puncher on any sort of consistant basis.

 

These arguments are always so flawed and speculative. Really, nobody took these upper tier guy's best punches flush on the chin without going down. These men's knockouts are a result of numerous variables that are being erroneously disregarded.

 

Shavers could hit but really other than Norton many guys took Shavers power. You are wrong, Quarry took it and KO"D Shavers. Bob Stallings took it and beat and dropped Earnie for a nine count. Light heavy Vincente Rondon took Earnie the full route shortly after being KO'd by Bob Foster in 2. Bernardo Mercado,Ron Lyle,Tex Cobb all took Shavers best and stopped him. Lyle,Mercado,and Holmes got off the floor to win and Ron Stander stood toe to toe with Shavers to KO him in 5...Earnie was a puncher but he was not a finisher Like Marciano,Louis and Dempsey and even Lewis. Earnie never finished off a quality fighter except Norton who lost to every puncher he faced.