Marco Antonio Barrera

If you were only allowed to put through 5 fighters from each decade starting from 1900, provided MAB is in your top 5 for the last decade, he would make the top 50. If your putting through 20 fighters from one decade and 1 fighter from another decade on a top 50 list, your basically saying that one decade is so much better than the other. Justify that. You cant. Its too subjective.

A fighter who managed to be the best of his era is equal to the other fighters who happened to be the best of their era, perhaps equal with the 2nd, 3rd & 4th too, anymore and its just alot of overrating going on.

 

Here lies one of the problems with boxing and all time rankings. How to go about it.

Either way, Barrera is not top 5 from our era anyway, so it shouldn't matter.

 

they are on the level comparable to McCallum, Griffin, Reggie Johnson, Woods, Glen Kelly

 

You put in Juarez there, surely Tapia is head and shoulders above Juarez. Even Ayala & Sanchez are too. But point taken.

 

Not a problem with that, but who would you rate above MAB from his era? Taking the best 10 years of his career and comparing it to the body of work to the other fighters around that time?

 

I used Juarez to compare with Johnson ... someone taugh but generaly without big accomplishments

 

He ranks jsut behind Morales.

 

Off the top of the head here's an easy 5:

Jones Jr.
Mayweather Jr.
Lewis
Hopkins
De La Hoya

All unquestionably rate ahead of him. There are others as well that at least have a case, if not directly rate ahead of him:

Pacquiao
Morales
Trinidad
Mosley
Toney
Calzaghe
etc.

For now that's all I have, my brain isn't functioning that well right now. I'm going to take a break.

 

Jones & PBF definetely ranks above him.

Tito, DLH, Lewis, Pac, Morales & Toney have a case but I dont think any of them are really above him. He is arguably 3rd.

Tito has a way past prime pea, robbery on DLH and was embarassed by BHop & Winky. His best win in a young Vargas but vargas isnt even a HOF'r. ODLH has an old Pea & Chavez and a young Vargas who was hurt by Tito. Those wins by either Tito or ODLH doesnt compare to beating prime HOF'ers Hamed & Morales.

Lewis has the strongest case for stealing 3rd, or even 2nd. Both Lewis & MAB has a good list of solid good champions but their biggest names are Holyfield, Tyson & Klit. Tyson was still champ material but not ATG or HOF level at the time of the fight. So its Holyfield & Klit vs Morales & Hamed, its close.

I personally rank Morales above him and im not sure with Pac yet, Im gonna wait until Pac finishes his career to judge him on that. Toney has a strong case but he was way too inconsistent.

Oh yea I forgot Hopkins. Hopkins biggest wins coming from a blownup one dimensional Tito(who was already exposed by Oscar), blown up Oscar who already lost to Sturm, blown up Wright who couldnt even handle Taylor at MW and a weight drained Tarver. Ive called the 2 times BHop was gonna loose, when he fought Taylor and when he fought Calzaghe.

 

I'd say all are very clearly above him aside from Morales and Toney. Pacquiao is right there with those guys.

As well as wins over Mayorga, Joppy, Camacho, Campas, Carr, Thiam, Reid, Waters, Pendleton, Cortes, etc. Not to mention he is just behind Henry Armstrong for most WW title defenses ever with 17 I believe. Barrera has losses as well, only his losses weren't to bigger fighters.

Why does Hamed so deserve a HOF spot? Most of his best wins were past prime fighters as well. And considering DLH beat Tito by most accounts, including yours, that counts for him as well, as a better win than either Morales or Hamed. You also forgot Hoya's wins over too many to name. Hoya has the best resume of any modern fighter really. Barrera has no case to above him.

You're leaving off all of the other wins on these fighters resumes and only comparing the top two opponents to have a better case. That's not how it works.

Barrera could be considered inconsistent as well. Bottom line is, all of these fighters either have better resumes, stronger achievements, or both.

Hopkins also had 20 title defenses at MW and dominated the division. He has losses sure, but again, so does Barrera. His losses to Taylor are not as bad as Barrera's prime losses to Junior Jones IMO. And Wright did by most accounts beat Taylor. Not the most impressive of resumes, but definitely as far as domination, skill, longevity, etc go, Hopkins deserves to rate above Barrera.

 

Based on his overall career accomplishments and how good he was at his best, MAB probably ranks somewhere from 60-70 on my all-time list.

Too rate him with the fighters of his era, I put Jones, Hopkins, and Mayweather unquestionably above him. I feel he's mostly interchangeable with DLH, Tito, Lewis, Morales, and Pacquiao. If I had to choose, Trinidad and Pacquiao would be above him on my list, but MAB is just slightly higher than the others.

Morales (twice), Hamed, Tapia, Ayala, Kelly, McKinney, Juarez (twice), Peden, Sanchez, etc. His resume is excellent, his skill and talent made him a complete fighter at his best, and he showed on several occasions that he could come back from bad losses, adversity, etc. He rates rather highly in every catagory that should be taken in when ranking a fighter's greatness.

 

Those guys are titlist level fighters you listed, I didnt bother with them cos MAB has an ample of them too. Im listing great wins over great fighters in their primes.

Hamed is clearly above the likes of vargas, joppy, mayorga or quartey's. Camacho was way past prime. Hamed is definietely HOF worthy, something like 18 championship fights won (something you tend to credit fighters for). He embarassed fellow titlist and ruled the division. Top p4p fighter when MAB faced him and undefeated.

So what if Hopkins has 20 title defenses? That means nothing. MAB has had 20 more fights than Hopkins himself, just because you fought a bum and defended your title with it doesnt mean its anymore meaningful than fighting a bum and not defend your title over it. MAB has also won 20 odd championship fights and had he bothered to hold unto the belt, would have more on there too.

 

We tend to give fighter's credit for championship bouts, but so what for Hopkins and his 20 title defences (i.e. CHAMPIONSHIP BOUTS)?

:think I'm not sure if I follow

Hops will go down as the greater fighter to MAB

 

Personally I dont care too much how many defenses and title bouts someone has, its the calibre of the fighters I care about. Me pointing out Naz number of championship fights was just a case of reversing the situation, if according to Pea BHop is great cos he has 20 title defenses, then so Naz must be great too for having 18 championship fights.

I know BHop is gonna go down as the greater fighter...but not because he is. Simply because he is of a much higher weight class. If MAB started at MW and was ruling that with an iron fist, decided to go up to SMW & LHW and rule that with an iron fist too, he would be ranked much higher. As it is the lower weights get alot less attention in general and therefore less credit.

 

I already stated that not only was Hamed not in his prime, but not a great fighter. There isn't an elite fighter that would've lost to Hamed.

Not a chance in hell he was better than the two I listed at the time they were fought.

He never faced an elite fighter until Barrera, where he got embarassed. I can't think of an elite fighter around his weight he'd have beaten consistently. The same doesn't apply for other fighters like Hopkins.

Or if he'd not lost to the likes of Junior Jones twice. Bottom line, outside of Barrera's wins over Morales and Hamed if you like, his resume is not that good.

All of the other fighters you named were either B level or past their prime. Every single one. Tapia was way past his best and above his best weight. Ayala was at the very end of his career and above his best weight. Kelley was way past his prime. McKinney was a good fighter, but his only big win was over Jones, and that came after Barrera beat him. Juarez is B level. Peden was a pretty good win.

I can do this to Barrera's resume the same way you can do it to others.