Margarito vs Clottey - how did you score it? + both fighters analyzed

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by huki, Dec 26, 2007.


  1. Executioner

    Executioner Boxing Addict Full Member

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    BS

    everyone with decent working eyes can see that Cotto has underrated handspeed. fighters like Quintana were surprised by his handspeed

    i never said cotto has 1 punch knock out power..but he is very heavyhanded and punches hard with every shot.

    no WAY clottey is a better puncher, let alone a 'much better' puncher. he hasn't scored a TKO in over 3 years fighting CANS. he didn't stop alvarez, who is not as good as carlos quintana who was blasted by cotto

    clottey is featherfisted and his punching power is greatly overrated on how muscular he is.
     
  2. bigeddie27

    bigeddie27 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Clottey also broke diego's jaw. It only takes someone with power to break bones. No one is saying Clottey is an all-round better puncher than Cotto, but Clottey throws a better left hook and is a better combination puncher than Cotto.
     
  3. Executioner

    Executioner Boxing Addict Full Member

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    he also hit Diego with about 993,314 clean punches to the face. corrales [RIP] was known to have a shaky chin and still clottey could not stop him.
     
  4. huki

    huki huk huk ^_^;; Full Member

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    :lol: Your math is $1800 off, so I'm not sure how well you know sportsbooks, but I assure you that I wouldn't even bet 1 dollar on him if the odds were +2500. Now that I think about it, please bet everything you have on Clottey if he fights Cotto. It's people like you that balance out the odds on mismatches and I have to thank you for that. Yes, I "drop some cheese" on fighters I believe in. I had some money on Cotto stopping Judah earlier this year and a good amount on Cotto beating Mosley. If Cotto vs Clottey happens I will be betting at least 5x more than I put on those MUCH less predictable fights.

    To the people that keep thinking "Clottey is a rock" and "if someone is getting knocked out it's Cotto", I don't know what to say.. you're either joking or you're blind. A rock is someone that doesn't get affected by punches and doesn't tire after fighting a few rounds. It's someone that doesn't get pushed back and broken down.. Baldomir against Forrest or Andrade vs Kessler. Watching Clottey vs Margarito and others, it's obvious that he is easy to break down and he's mentally weak. If Clottey is a rock, Cotto is mount everest and Clottey would barely be able to last 6 rounds with him. Come on.. just watch the fights with your eyes open.

    Executioner, there's no point of arguing with Still~style, I think he's mostly an act and just tries to start **** with people for fun. I'm still anxious to see how IntentionalButt scored the fight for Clottey. But the point of my thread was to explain why they are both not even close to A- level fighters and I don't want this to turn into an insult thread with someone like Skill~style.
     
  5. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Sorry, but Clottey's left hook is no where near Cotto's nor is he the combination puncher Cotto is.
     
  6. Executioner

    Executioner Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I noticed those boyz didnt try touching my counter post. :hat
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Ok. Just had a chance to sit and watch.

    1-4 clear Clottey. His movement & jab, hooking, fast power combinations, and accuracy ruled the first, second, third and fourth respectively.

    5th goes to Margarito by default on activity though he looks extremely sloppy for most of it. The two men exchange some good power combinations in the final ten seconds, both land a few, Margarito probably a couple more.

    So far the scoring is consistent with my original card.

    6th is tough. Margarito won more of it, but the 70 seconds Clottey won, he won more decisively. A few really nice combinations landed flush on Margarito in the first minute, and then for nearly two minutes straight Margarito bullied Clottey into the ropes, catching quite a bit of wrist and elbow and landing next to nothing. Clottey lands a beautiful pair of three-punch combinations in the last ten seconds. I had originally had this 9-9 which I don't now understand (if I was trying to make it even, it should have been 10-10...). Now I will give it to Margarito, 10-9. Clottey really didn't dominate the first minute of the round, he just landed a few clean combos - they were few and far between enough, however, that even including his flurries before the bell, he only dominated about 40 seconds of the round and lost twice that amount of time getting his arms pummeled. 4 rounds to 2.


    7th. Again, a couple of really nice shots peppered through the round by Clottey, but not nearly enough. Margarito at times keeps his jab disciplined and manages to throw the occasional textbook 1-2. For the most part it is wild looping slap/clubs...more than enough of them, however, to net him another round on workrate. I agree with my original scoring of 10-9 Margarito. 4 rounds to 3.

    8th. First 45 seconds, about fifty lazy jabs and a couple of half-assed combinations by Margarito of which maybe 2 jabs land. Nothing from Clottey. Second minute, Margarito varying his attack, I probably didn't notice/credit his bodywork in this middle part of the round as much the first time around. Margarito was certainly the aggressor overall but I favored Clottey's accuracy on my original scorecard (10-9 Clottey) - he landed several hard shots including a few 4-punch combinations. Al Bernstein agrees with me that it was close. I'll go ahead and keep my new scoring consistent; since I favored overall time of round controlled this time before, in round 6, I will do so again and give the nod to Margarito's sustained aggression over Clottey's accuracy in spurts. 10-9. Four rounds apiece.

    9th. Uneventful first minute, then Margarito starts finding landing pads all over Clottey's body for a good 90+ seconds until Clottey fires off four rapid punches to the head and then struggles to muscle his way out of the corner through a nonstop barrage of punches. 10-9 Margarito (same as original scorecard), who is now winning the fight.

    10th. Clottey boxes and moves around Margarito, making the bigger slower man look foolish. Margarito's only "activity" is his worthless crappy jab. Clottey falls in a couple of times to land 2 and 3 punch combinations. I originally had this for Margarito, probably to punish Clottey for fighting so reservedly. In fact, he does deserve the round upon review. 10-9 Clottey. Tied again.

    11th. Little to choose from first minute and forty-five. Then Margarito digs in with a nice body shot, answered by one from Clottey (uncredited by the announcers). Margarito lands a few more of those in the final minute. The initial scoring of 10-9 for Clottey was probably due to the fact that the few he landed were prettier connects than Margarito's throughout the round (other than the 4 or 5 really nice body shots towards the end). Margarito did however, unquestionably outhustle and outland Clottey, and his hardest shots were harder (if mostly uglier). 10-9 Margarito, resuming the lead into the last frame.

    12th. First thirty seconds, Margarito throws effortless jabs, effortlessly blocked by Clottey. Margarito then starts coming forward trying to set something up, looking for an angle. Clottey won't give him one, clearly winning the mental battle for foot positioning. Margarito begins to close the distance with an arsenal consisting of limp jabs and sweeping roundhouses, only few of which land. Clottey answers with an occasional timid jab of his own or pitty-pat combinations, only some of which land. For ten seconds, from 1:55 to 2:05 into the round, Clottey blasts Margarito with short power punches. For the next thirty seconds Margarito touches Clottey's ribs in the clinch with a gentle caressing touch that I'd be loathe to award any points for (although you could technically call them lands...despite Clottey likely literally not even feeling the contact). Bomb of a left lands for Clottey, with a follow-up right and a flashy flurry of which only about half actually lands. He then backs up, circles, and clinches at the bell. I have no problem abiding by my original 10-9 score for Clottey.

    I have re-scored this fight as a draw. Compared to my original tabulation, I have changed the 6th from an even 9-9 :)?) to a Margarito round, switched 8th from a Clottey to a Margarito round, and inverted the 10th and 11th, giving the former to Clottey instead of Margarito and the latter to Margarito instead of Clottey.

    118-109 for AM is still absolute crap.
     
  8. huki

    huki huk huk ^_^;; Full Member

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    :D Well it's good to see that you rescored it without any bias and I have no problem with a draw. I can see why you scored the 12th for Clottey, but I disagree with you about that round for reasons I already said before. Overall, I think the summary of the fight is that Clottey was tired and had to fight in spurts, so he tried to steal rounds after the 4th, but the punches he was landing weren't significant and Margarito was controlling the fight and landing more effective punches. Even though most of Margarito's sloppy punches were hitting Clottey's elbows, shoulders, hands, etc, they were still effective because they wore Clottey down and gave him less opportunities to breathe and gain more stamina.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Sure. And I'm sure you'll concede that while he certainly didn't fight exceptionally well past the 4th in that fight, their head-to-head demonstration of skills illustrated that Clottey is clearly a better overall fighter than Margarito, regardless of how you rate either - whether you want to call him a B to Tony's B-, C+ to Tony's C, any way you slice it, Clottey is far less average (as 'more great' is not really an appropriate choice of words - nothing 'great' about either :yep).
     
  10. huki

    huki huk huk ^_^;; Full Member

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    I've said before that boxing talent wise Clottey is a lot better than Margarito and in a rematch he would probably win. But his stamina is horrible unlike Margarito's and that's why they're on the same level overall and they will both never have a chance against any real elite fighters. I don't like Margarito and I don't like Clottey either. He's not fun to watch, he fights in spurts, and he is mentally weak. He starts fouling every single time he's in any kind of trouble and I hate that type of mentality in a fighter. I hope Cintron stops him brutally.
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    The highlighted part is all I disagree with. :thumbsup And that is about as subjective and varying by individual as it gets. :yep

    Cintron has pop to spare and some nice fundamentals - he also has alot of the same flaws you listed for Clottey, however; he may even be mentally weaker, which IMO makes for a pick'em - you're much likelier to see a surefire brutal KO scored by someone like Cotto.
     
  12. huki

    huki huk huk ^_^;; Full Member

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    After that pathetic performance vs Feliciano anything is possible with Cintron, but at least when he's frustrated and breaks down he doesn't resort to fouling (he takes frustration out on himself rather than his opponent, which favors Clottey actually :lol:). It would be an interesting battle of the mentally weak though. If Clottey manages to pull it off, it would not be a good few months on the ESB because he would be hyped insanely and probably thought of as an elite fighter until he actually faced one. I'm hoping Cintron knocks him out though and I'm at least 80% sure it will happen.
     
  13. Antwuan Maxx

    Antwuan Maxx Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It wasn't a broken hand. Clottey even admitted it himself in the interview prior to fighting Chico that it was a knuckle injury. Even though after the Margarito fight he he told Jim Gray he injured his left hand in the 4th round and his right a little later. He didn't even mention the right hand in the interview before the Corrales fight. Why? Because it wasn't true.

    Shaky legs, yes...at 140 pounds being severely weight-drained. If Mosley or Judah couldn't put him away, then I have a hard time seeing Clottey even putting a dent in him.

    It's funny, you say Cotto ran away from Mosley when he elected to fight off the back foot. Yet, he was the one landing the clean, effective blows. If that's your idea of running away, what did you call it when Clottey got on his bicycle against Felix Flores, causing the crowd to boo his ass? :lol:

    So what? Feather fisted Eric Harding broke Antonio Tarver's jaw. Any fighter is capable of breaking someones jaw, whether they're a big puncher or not. That's not an indication of power, but more so catching a fighter at a vulnerable moment. But anyway, to put Clottey's power in perspective, lightweight Jose Luis Castillo starched Chico with one single shot at 147. Clottey, who was close to being light heavyweight on fight night, couldn't put him away after hitting him with everything but the kitchen sink.
     
  14. Toopretty

    Toopretty Custom made Full Member

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    Clottey does not hit hard but he is an accurate puncher. He does get off very good sharp short combinations and he has very good hand speed and counter punch ability. He beat the **** out of margarito and made him look like the elephant man after the fight. I scored it a draw after rewatching it last night I gave rd 11 to clotty as Margarito was just punching and punching but not landing anything and I do mean anything clean at all. He landed about 3 body shots and clottey quickly hit him in the jaw with left hooks. He bust margarito up bad. Cotto would beat Clottey with no problem but not b/c Clottey is a bum or anything. It is a bad style match up b/c Cotto is the better boxer and his jab would set up his left hook to the body. Cotto has a very good str8 right hand as well.
     
  15. Toopretty

    Toopretty Custom made Full Member

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    Clottey's defense is too good and his chin as well for Cintron to have a half of a chance. If Cintron got frustrated with get countered by Margarito. Yes, margarito actually out boxed that mutt. Clottey would take his heart and kick his ass. Clottey is not going to get hit with no Cintron power shots that is ridiculous.