Marquez at #1 P4P is debatable but there is no reason for him to be behind Calzaghe!

I mean that is your opinion, but I think Valero knows PAc's block off!

 

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That's why we love this sport, anything could happen!

 

Blame the Nevada State Athletic Commision and De La Hoya for this fight not happening, not Arum, not Pac.

You certainly don't have anything to base on about this "Pac is scared of Valero" allegations.

 

dlh > valero

dlh is riskier (due to his known advantages and experience), yet $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
valero, on the other hand, could be regarded as risky, but not enough $$$$$

so, if i were you, who would you go for, dlh or valero?

that is logic. use your common sense my friend.

 

Nice post. :good

As I have said my P4P list:
1. Pac
2. JC
3. Chris John
4. JMM

 

no. first, the question of what calzaghe has done wrong is wrong itself. it doesn't matter. you're oversimplifying things when you say "pac wins against marquez, calzaghe beats hopkins" and don't consider how close these fights were. and it's not about talking bad of calzaghe's win against hopkins since hopkins is never to be underestimated and has a style made for making his opponents look bad. but: marquez is just as good as pacquiao. i had pac winning the first one not too closely, jmm winning the second by 1 point, and looking at their other fights they both have fantastic records (clearly pissing all over calzaghe's). calzaghe is really good, and it's a shame he's more just lacking opponents than unwilling to demonstrate his skill, but regardless of looking at calzaghe, pac and marquez are still just on the same level. either you put calzaghe ahead of them, or behind, there's just no space between pac and marquez.

 

Let me tell you what I think: Some posters are talking too much trying to justify their views about the fight.

1- Some have mentioned that Pac has more balls than others for taking this fight. This is laughable. Basically they are putting other boxers down to make a case and deny that the fight is more about money than anything else. I remember one posters in particular that admitted that the fight was pretty much about money and he end up making reference to Pac's balls at the end of his comments regardless.

2- Some haven't accepted the fact that the fight is about money, on the contrary they just talk about glory and Pac's courage, but they don't realize that Forbes just fought him in May for peanuts.... once again nobody made comments about that at that time or even now.

3- Some have acepted the fact that the fight is about money but at the same time criticize Pac, saying that if after Hoya, he doesn't fight the others at 135, then he will be ducking them.

4- Some have accepted the fact that the fight is about money, whether they are Pac fans or not. They didn't like the fact that Pac is going to fight Hoya instead of fighting the guys at 135, but now everything is done, sealed and delivered and they just move on and wait for Dec-06 to watch the fight.

That pretty much sums up the whole thing.

Regarding your comments about why people didn't say anything about Forbes being in danger when he fought Hoya....... I disagree with your view, it isn't true what you said, we are no talking here about Joe Blow, we are talking about ESB posters who are boxing fans, posters who watched the fight and know who Forbes is and the day after (and still at the present) on this board they said " If Forbes went the distance with Hoya can you Imagine what Pac can do....." among other comments.

Regarding people's comment about the fight saying... "Hoya by brutal KO " has nothing to do with where Pac comes from (106 lbs), I bet that many people would say the same thing if Hoya fights Campbell, Diaz, or any other 135lber too. Also it has to do with the fact that Pac's defense is not that great and Hoya is a skilfull boxer.

Regarding Jones beating Ruiz, I gave him credit for doing that, but it is a fact that Jones picked the weakest link.

I am not sold (like others) with Hoya by "Brutal KO", because the guy is a partime boxer and he's not young anymore....also his stamina has been an issue and these are facts, posters have talked about and still do, I think a decision probably is more viable....

Finally, Hoya is not the biggest threat at 147, and this is a fact too.

 

LAst time I checked, the first fight was a draw :yep

 

A KO win over casamayor is more impressive than pac's KO over Diaz. Diaz lost that fight to morales who is shot as ****. Diaz was the weakest of all the belt holders at 135. There were several other guys that would have been better fights for pac.

 

Pac #1 - Whatever you think - Marquez has not deafeated Pacquaio.
Marquez #2 - P4P credentials much more apparent than Calzaghe.

 

Why is that laughable?, of course a major part of it is money. Another big part of it is courage and confidence from Pacquiao to take a fight like this in my opinion. Still a very dangerous fight and Pac is moving up from 135 to 147, it's not an easy move nor a joke.

Of course not enough will talk about Forbes, what Forbes did was pure courage and guts, there's no denying that and I mentioned it over and over. The reason why Pacquiao is heard more because he has FAR more fans and is the #1 P4P and far more popular than Forbes. This is what makes you read more and more about why Pac is courageous for taking it but not enough credit for Forbes. It's usually a popularity contest with discussions.

Well to each his own, fans tend to forget that a fighter can take one step at a time. He can't really fight everyone including DLH in just a year, there's something called patience and logic sadly most fans deny that. But saying he moved up to 147 for DLH because he's scared of the competition at 147 is ridiculous.

Nothing wrong with that, what else is there to do?, complaining won't change the fact that this fight is already signed and set to happen in a few months. It's still boxing and that's what fans want to see. Everyone knew Tyson was shot fighting Lewis and had no chance yet they still tuned in for it. Fame plays a major role in boxing as it's a business as well as a sport, I assure you the PPV numbers will be insane for this one and for obvious reasons.

Yeah, but are there actual fans of Forbes to keep such comments running all over the forum from time to time?

It has A LOT to do with Pac coming up from 135 for this one, just check out the majority of comments and posts, whether on ESB or another site. Most people say that Hoya has a MAJOR size advantage right after the "Hoya by KO" prediction. If that wasn't the case then I won't see many picking Oscar instead of DLH here, it would be the other way around.

He was the weakest link but also a man coming off wins of Holyfield and still a serious Heavyweight champion. Jones gets a lot of credit for that win.

I'm picking Pac by UD but still won't be shocked if all those DLH by KO predictions turn out to be true.

Yes it is a fact but you know the reason why they're targeting DLH and it's money, the others don't even offer anything compared to DLH when it comes to money. If it wasn't for DLH being the man asking for this then this fight wasn't going to happen and Pac will be at 135.

 

Scar, I think you are missing the whole point. People have mentioned the words courage, and having balls as an answer to those who have made comments about Pac taking the fight just for the money, eventhough the same fans have already admitted that the fight is about money. That's why I said that this is laughable.

Let me put it this way.... lets say that my favourite boxer is in Pac's shoes, and then you tell me that my boxer took the fight because of the money, and that my boxer is greedy, and he should be fighting the comp at his weightclass, etc, etc, and then I reply to you by saying "I bet that your boxer would have taken the fight too, so don't criticize my boxer for doing it". Up to this moment my statement is correct, you won't be able to say that I am wrong because if you do you would look stupid, but if I come back later and I say that my boxer has more balls than others for taking the fight, then I look stupid, because I already admited that many others would have taken the fight, which means they have courage and balls as well.

This is basically what has being going on. One poster among others had it right when he started a thread regarding a possible match (next) between JMM and Hatton. He mentioned that JMM would take the fight if the chance is there.... why? because of the money, and I agree with that. If that fight actually happens, then there is no need for JMM fans to start talking about courage and having balls, regardless of the weightclass, even if any other 135 pounder fights Hoya after, there is no need to start talking about such words as an excuse for taking the fight. It is what it is, and it is about MONEY, simple as that, no need to justify anything.

So let's be clear that some of the comments that people made about "Courage" and "Having balls" were comments made to justify their point of view, that the main motive for Pac taking the fight was not money, eventhough they have already admitted the oposite.

The reason why I mention Forbes was because the fight just happend in May, and there was no need to talk about courage and balls at that time, the same way there is no need to talk about that right now. It has nothing to do with who is more popular and who has more fans, it has to do with the fact that every single boxer is at risk every time that he jumps up the ring, regardless of the weight class. This doesn't mean that people shouldn't talk about it, but I don't think that it is appropiate to use it as a justification for something else, in this case MONEY.

I want to mention that many Pac fans dislike the idea of this fight, they are against, but it is what it is and nothing that we can do about it. I put myself in group # 4, now it is time to move on.

 

I have JMM ahead of Calzaghe.


His win over casamayor is more impressive than Calzaghe's over hopkins.


I either havent seen or dont remember my opinion on the second JMM-Pac fight. So I suppose I would have Pac ahead based on the official records but even with that, Pac is going to take a loss to DLH and if JMM has another big win in the mean time then JMM is number 1 regardless.