Marquez beats Pacquiao TWICE !

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by yesihavearm2, Dec 15, 2008.


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  1. yesihavearm2

    yesihavearm2 ESB Chinchecker Full Member

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    Juan Manuel Marquez went down 4 times in 2 fights, right, but he dominated 18 rounds out of 24, AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS.

    Nobody cares anymore about the judges scores: in the hearts and minds of all intelligent boxing fans, as confimed by most boxing experts out there, JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ took Manny Pacquiao back to school... TWICE!!

    THIS IS WHAT BOXING EXPERTS AND INTERNATIONAL JUDGES THINK ABOUT THE MARQUEZ-PACQUIAO ii FIGHT:

    - Dick Weeno, ***********. com:114-113 Marquez
    - Gary Randall, MaxBoxing. com:114-113 Marquez
    - Bart Barry, 15Rounds. com:115-113 Marquez
    - Bruce McTavish, International Judge:115-112 Marquez
    - Francis Ochoa, Philippine Daily Inquirer:114-113 Marquez
    - Scott Christ, BadLeftHook. com:114-113 Marquez
    - William Detloff, The Ring Magazine:115-113 Marquez
    - Ron Borges, TheSweetScience. com: 114-113 Marquez
    - Bert Sugar: Marquez
    - Max Kellerman & Bob Papa: Marquez in both fights

    - Darius Ortiz, ESPN. com:114-113 Marquez
    - Eric Raskin, ESPN. com:114-113 Marquez
    - Brian Kenny, Friday Night Fights:115-112 Marquez
    - Yahoo Sports:115-112 Marquez
    - Fight News. com:115-112 Marquez
    - Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review Journal: 114-113 Marquez
    - Norm Fraunheim, Arizona Republic:114-113 Marquez
    - Rich Marrotta, Top Rank TV:114-113 Marquez
    - Kieran Mulvaney, Reuters:114-113 Marquez
    - DogHouseBoxing:114-113 Marquez
    - Brett Conway, MaxBoxing. com:114-113 Marquez

    - Dan Rafael, ESPN: 114-113 Marquez
    - Nonito Donaire: 114-113 Marquez
    - Filipino Sports Analysts Ronnie Nathanielsz, Recah Trinidad and Ed Picson all picked Marquez.
    - Eduardo Lamazón, TV Azteca: 114-113 Marquez
    - Associated Press: 114-113 Marquez
    - Judge Benjamin Rendon: 115-113
    - Ernesto Castellanos; ESTO: 115-114 Marquez
    - Perea & Rendon, Notifight: 115-113 Marquez
    - Ring Magazine awarded the belt to Pacquaio but did not believe he won the fight.

    COMPUBOX RESULTS - MARQUEZ-PACQUIAO II

    TOTAL PUNCHES: Landed- 172 JMM, 157 MP; Thrown- 511 JMM, 619 MP; Pct. 34% JMM, 25% MP.
    JABS: Landed-42 JMM, 43 MP; Thrown- 201 JMM; 314 MP; Pct. 21%JMM, 14% MP.
    POWER PUNCHES: Landed-130 JMM, 114 MP; Thrown- 310 JMM, 305 MP; Pct. 42% JMM, 37% MP.

    Overall winner: Juan Manuel Marquez

    Pacquiao won the judges' nod based largely on the third-round knockdown, but the CompuBox statistics backed Marquez's assertion that he should have gotten the nod. Though Marquez threw 108 fewer punches (619-511), he landed 15 more (172-157) overall, and the 34-year-old Mexican also amassed a 16-punch edge in power connects (130-114) while throwing just five more (310-305). The only category Pacquiao out-did Marquez was in connected jabs (43-42), but the challenger had to throw 113 more of them (314-201) to do so.

    Speaking of damage done, if one broke down solely the power connect totals Marquez would have emerged with the 6-5-1 edge. Marquez won the second (12-9), fifth (10-4), sixth (14-13), seventh (12-8), eighth (15-5) and 12th rounds (15-10) while Pacquiao captured the first (8-4), third (9-7), fourth (13-9), ninth (11-9) and 11th rounds (11-10) while the 10th round was even at 13.


    Source:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrYHdunsiaY










    *Just to add my own comment in here.

    When was the last time the "#1" p4p fighter was outboxed thouroughly for long periods over 2 fights ?

    Excluding the knockdowns Marquez would have won WIDE decisions.

    I've watched these 2 fights time and time again now and head to head Marquez is the superior fighter at 130.
     
    yesihavearm2, Dec 15, 2008
    yesihavearm2, Dec 15, 2008
    #1
  2. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    even excluding the knockdowns, Marquez would only have had a SD and a draw.

    and knockdowns are a part of the sport. If it weren't for the knockdowns the whole fight would be different, not just the results. Maybe if Marquez doesn't go down, he doesn't have the full count to recover and then gets TKO'd


    Marquez can hang with Pac head-to-head, but then compare their success against other opposition and Pac leaves JMM in the dust. Styles make fights and JMM has the perfect style to defeat Pac, but he is still unable to do it.
     
    PH|LLA, Dec 15, 2008
    PH|LLA, Dec 15, 2008
    #2
  3. PopeJackson

    PopeJackson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree
     
    PopeJackson, Dec 15, 2008
    PopeJackson, Dec 15, 2008
    #3
  4. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Pac won the first....Marquez shaded the second.

    I think however JMM has got the edge over Pac.
     
    WhataRock, Dec 15, 2008
    WhataRock, Dec 15, 2008
    #4
  5. iceman71

    iceman71 WBC SILVER Champion Full Member

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    all that matters is won / loss ion the record....years from now...all of that wont matter.....
     
    iceman71, Dec 15, 2008
    iceman71, Dec 15, 2008
    #5
  6. BoppaZoo

    BoppaZoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    thats it what will matter is 1 draw 1 win Pacman.

    in say 20 years hardly anyone will go on and on about how close it was.
     
    BoppaZoo, Dec 15, 2008
    BoppaZoo, Dec 15, 2008
    #6
  7. Silvermags

    Silvermags Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    Why exclude the icing in a cake!

    IT IS NOW CONFIRMED!

    GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT OF JMM it his DRAW against PAC.

    Not his win over CASA
    Not his win over MAB
    Not his win over JACA
    Not his win over SALIDO

    Not even his possible win over Juan Diaz. Yes! fellow members of the esb fans they'll never talk about those above mentioned wins but they will always talk about how close there were from winning over PAC.

    Yes, It was a good and close fight! But bottom line, JMM was good but not good enough to get past PAC..

    This maybe the 100th time that this topic has been raised. It's getting a little boring but I don't blame you guys:lol:.

    Coz PAC is JMM ticket to GLORY and FAME :party




    come to think of it. If JMM did not meet PAC what is there to talk about JMM....?!?













































































































    NOTHING !:lol::lol:
     
    Silvermags, Dec 15, 2008
    Silvermags, Dec 15, 2008
    #7
  8. Beenie

    Beenie Evolve already! Full Member

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    Considering the first fight was erroneously scored by one of the judges who inexplicably failed to credit Pac for one of his KD's I clearly had Pac winning a close 7-6 decision. I had Pac winning rounds 1, 7, 10, 12 with JMM winning rounds 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11. Cases can be made for either fighter in rounds 2 and 3 in which I scored both as even rounds.

    One extra tidbit, had the 3 knockdown rule been in effect in this fight there would be no controversy whats so ever to who the better fighter is. It would have been completely excepted that Pac was the better fighter and he would have gone on to be praised for scoring a first round ko and there would have never have been a rematch. Obviously this is completely hypothetical but I think it's a noteworthy point because the 3 kd rule is a legitimate rule.

    Food for thought.

    BTW I'm a Pac fan and I am glad the rule wasn't in effect. It's absence has giben all of us 2 great wars to reflect on.
     
    Beenie, Dec 15, 2008
    Beenie, Dec 15, 2008
    #8
  9. Royal-T-Bag

    Royal-T-Bag Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    almost every boxing fan/expert i've ever spoke to about this fight had marquez edging both fights
     
    Royal-T-Bag, Dec 15, 2008
    Royal-T-Bag, Dec 15, 2008
    #9
  10. Akatsuki

    Akatsuki New Member Full Member

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    Pacquiao beat Marquez twice

    The judges' scoring diverged widely. One had it 115-110 for Marquez, another 115-110 for Pacquiao. Judge Burt Clements sealed the draw with a 113-113 score, but he admitted making a mistake. He should have had the first round 10-6 for Pacquiao instead of 10-7. Pacquiao would have won a decision.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=3281702
     
    Akatsuki, Dec 15, 2008
    Akatsuki, Dec 15, 2008
    #10
  11. BoppaZoo

    BoppaZoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jan 21, 2007
    well i didnt.

    I had Pacman winning the 1st fight and losing the 2nd.

    and so does alot of other fans.
     
    BoppaZoo, Dec 15, 2008
    BoppaZoo, Dec 15, 2008
    #11
  12. radab

    radab Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You're damn right Marquez is the superior boxer at 130.
     
    radab, Dec 15, 2008
    radab, Dec 15, 2008
    #12
  13. retriever

    retriever Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Almost every boxing fan/expert i've ever spoke to said DLH will K.O Pacman.:lol:
     
    retriever, Dec 15, 2008
    retriever, Dec 15, 2008
    #13
  14. Silvermags

    Silvermags Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oct 28, 2007


    :lol::lol::lol::good
     
    Silvermags, Dec 15, 2008
    Silvermags, Dec 15, 2008
    #14
  15. fastfist

    fastfist Active Member Full Member

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    The reason these issues keep comin up over and over again is because it's all opinions. The final verdict still comes from the official judges witnessing the fight at ringside. This was how it has been in boxing history in determining winners, you can't change that. I could say Pac had sock problems, broken hands, weight drained and over trained if those would matter but they won't. However, a mistake by Clements should have mattered since he is the official judge of the fight. The fights were so close, there's no clear winner. If your are saying JMM is superior to Pac based on their fights that's just your opinion, it wouldn't matter.
     
    fastfist, Dec 15, 2008
    fastfist, Dec 15, 2008
    #15
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