Marquez Defeating Pacquiao DOES NOT Indicate Pac Loses to Floyd- A Technical Summary

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Bogotazo, Nov 13, 2011.


  1. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Great breakdown. But at this juncture the problem relies on Pac's physicality. He peaked around Cotto at least from a physical standpoint. He doesn't have that Tasmanian style, which is why he was somewhat lulled into a lopsided chess match against Marquez. Roach & Pac deluded themselves on how much Pac had improved (He had, but not enough to beat a master technician, counter-puncher, and boxer at chess). When Pac was at his most desperate in aggression, he probably had his biggest success against Marquez. Even he acknowledges he needs to pressure and fight like the "25 and 26 year old Pac" to have more success against Marquez. Against Bradley it was even worse. He virtually fought for thirty seconds a round and treated the fight like a sparring session. While he won, this sort of lackadaisical mentality allowed him the chance to get robbed.

    The speed, stamina, legs were all in much greater form when Pac was in his late 20's. Pac relies on his physicality and attributes far more than Floyd does. Both are past their primes, but Floyd would pick him apart far too easily with far too little resistance at this point of their careers. The 2009 version at least had a pray to make things interesting. Now I really can't even envision it.
     
  2. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I just dont think Floyd can apply his versatility if he lets Manny get the angle. He should have turned Oscar, and didn't, and though he won, looked bad. He should have turned Cotto, but instead got pushed back. He should have turned Judah, but instead got dropped early and ate consecutive hard punches. I'll give him lots of credit if he can turn Manny laterally to set up the right, but I don't expect him to try, which increases that chance Manny has to land.

    But at the and of the day, I too am fine with agreeing to disagree. I don't mind people picking Floyd to win, but I don't like other people treating fights like foregone conclusions while ignoring differences in dynamics.


    While I do think Manny has started to learn to fight smarter in the wake of his lack of explosiveness against Bradley (stepping over to get lead foot positioning instead of following a circling Bradley around the ring), this matter of tenativeness is a problem. He relies on that footspeed and unpredictability that defined his career. All the better if Floyd can motivate Pac to be hungry again. This is why I preferred a Bradley rematch to Marquez; he's likely never going to get past JMM's maneuvers, but he could feasibly up his aggression against Bradley and invoke the aggression necessary to compete with Floyd. If Manny's legs can't hold out, it's over before it's begun.
     
  3. Thatman

    Thatman No respond troll pactards banned

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    :good Man, thanks for the debate at least. Good to finally have a debate with someone who doesn't just insult me after I show an opinion with my reasoning.
     
  4. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Likewise :thumbsup
     
  5. PBF24

    PBF24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Once Manny start beating Floyd to the punch, I'm sure Floyd would make adjustments. He has a tendency to get off first just like Manny does. I'm seen several patterns in the Pacquiao-Bradley fight where Bradley got off first and landed on Manny consistently. I don't think lateral movement would be that much of a big X factor in the fight, but i do think that Floyd should move away from the ropes and keep the fight in the middle of the ring.

    I don't know if any of you guys have noticed this, but Floyd does take notes of certain things traits that works against his opponents. For instance, he noticed that both Judah and Mosley had success against Cotto when they threw their uppercuts, and he did made the adjustments needed and constantly landed that punch down the stretch against Cotto. I think he will pick few things from the last three rounds of the Bradley-Pacquiao fight.
     
  6. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    I recommend round 5 of Floyd-Corley. He used the jab light against the southpaw similar to Timmeh.
     
  7. PBF24

    PBF24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm tired of people using Floyd and JMM like their styles are identical, they don't. The only thing that they do have in common is that they're both great counter punchers. With that being said, I think Floyd would beat Manny and doing it his own way while mimicking few tactics that have worked against Manny from both JMM and Bradley.
     
  8. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    :nono

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    right to the body all night
     
  9. PBF24

    PBF24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bradley did landed the jab with ease at few times. When he exchanged punches with Manny in the pocket, he threw too many wide punches and Manny had the upper hand to got off first 90% of the time in those exchanges since he had the speed advantage. Floyd would have threw straight punches in some of those exchanges. A straight punch is very useful since it enable you to reach your target quicker while keeping enough distance to not be vulnerable to get hit in the process.
     
  10. PBF24

    PBF24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yep. He fought Manny totally different than JMM did. They can make up excuses for Manny by saying he wasn't that improved by then and whatnot, but Morales did it his way even though he did mimicked some blueprint tactics from JMM.
     
  11. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    I think Floyd's offensive arsenal if he fights emmanuel would look most similar to that of Morales. Morales invested heavily with the str8 right to the body, a punch that Floyd is very comfortable with throwing. Then he would right uppercut, Floyd's preferred hand to undercut with.

    Juan likes to left hook to the body. Floyd knows how to use this punch, but he rarely uses it. His low lead hand isn't ideal for throwing a left hook downstairs. What'll be in common here is blasting the right hand to the face.

    Then he can jab lightly the way Timmeh did as you already mentioned.

    The Mayweather exclusive check hook will really come in handy.

    You never know with Floyd though. He ended up making the left uppercut, a punch he rarely uses, into a big weapon when he fought Cotto(e).
     
  12. PBF24

    PBF24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I can see Floyd countering him with a short straight right hand downstairs like he usually throws. In that Bradley gif, I think Floyd would have pivot to his right a little bit and threw a short straight right hand from side down the middle of Pac's instead of the wide left hook that Bradley threw. This was just another one of those examples of Bradley being overly committed on throwing wide punches in that fight. I know the importance of foot positioning and lateral movement are when it comes to a Orthodox facing off against a Southpaw, but at the same time, it's not the big X factor that would determine who would win the fight.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhdjVcnAsY[/ame]

    At the 1:51 minute mark.
     
  13. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Definitely an option, but Floyd doesn't pivot there, he just waits. Cotto leaped into his jab and got caught; the main feature of the Bradley gif is that Pac triggers a counter with a feint, anticipates it, and goes forward to exploit it. Floyd's planted when he throws, and I don't see him throwing a counterpunch after he just missed one; he values accuracy above almost all else. If Manny doesn't feint and step over though, he'll get tagged just precisely as you described it.
     
  14. Thatman

    Thatman No respond troll pactards banned

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    Floyd would be able to land his right hand all night long if this fight ever happens. The amount of right hands that Floyd landed on Manny while making him miss would probably set some sort of record. Floyd would find leather all night long while making Manny miss him. Floyd is much faster than Juan and would be able to move out of the way of Manny's punches much quicker, and also pick Manny's punches off and bring Manny to the inside where has virtually no fight game at all.

    Floyd can also choose to make it a boring fight and use his length and size to keep Manny away. Floyd is excellent at controlling distance. I see so many options for Floyd in this fight while Manny would have to do what he always does.
     
  15. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I thought we agreed to disagree man? You keep talking about the right while ignoring the fact you need lead foot positioning on a southpaw to do so, and Floyd frequently gives that up. You can't simply state Floyd will land the right without also explaining how he's going to position himself to do it, when he never turns a fighter in-range. He rarely boxes southpaws and usually comes at them to try and discourage them from throwing. Measuring with a jab against a southpaw who can step to the side faster than you can isn't going to work, unless the opponent himself neglects to do so.

    And for those mentioning Morales, I don't see Floyd taking the fight inside like Manny did. Though he could use a similar mix of styles.