Marquez Defeating Pacquiao DOES NOT Indicate Pac Loses to Floyd- A Technical Summary

This is the one fight, I'd want Floyd to establish his jab.

 

Pacquaio can't do that anymore Bogo.

 

I was not responding to you man.:deal

He will land the right and his lead foot will find the outside of Manny's lead foot consistently. You act like Floyd won't adjust if Manny does find his lead foot on the outside consistently.

Manny would be picked apart. Everytime Manny takes that "angle" Floyd would steal it right back and pop Manny with a right hand. When Manny does his little pitter patter step thing he does, he would be hit with a 1-2 jab right hand.

Even if Manny gets that lead position, Floyd will keep himself away from Manny, enough to counter him and land rights and eventually finish with his hook or uppercut.

Floyd will also find his jab landing to Manny's body all night.

Also, Juan is not nearly as quick on the draw as Floyd. Floyd see's openings faster and throws much quicker than Juan.

So if we agreed to dissagree, why are you responding to me in the first place?

You do not "NEED" lead foot positioning either. It is better to have, but it is not NEEDED by any means.

 

check this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evm562QLq2M#t=2m30s

First 4 rounds Floyd fights the kind of fight that someone like emmanuel could have his moments in.

He begins to jab plenty in this round causing everything to be much smoother

 

Excellent breakdown Bogotazo. You really know your boxing.

Floyd's habit of backing up in straight lines is also the reason why I believe he would lose to Martinez.

In addition to being explosive, Martinez also has a reach advantage and his lateral movement could also potentially catch Floyd out of position.

I believe Martinez would be able to hit Floyd backing straight up with his left straights.

In all honesty, if Martinez is the same fighter at 154 as he is at 160, he would likely knock Floyd out.

I think this is why Floyd will not take this fight.

I imagine that Berto will be next because Berto has a wide, stationary stance. He's still dangerous with his handspeed, but I don't believe he can beat Floyd straight up in a boxing match where both fighters stand in front of eachother.

Also, it is likely Berto will be in a fight of the year scenario with K-9 or an impressive early knock out. It means this fight has potential to generate a lot of money, with signficantly less risk than a Pacquaio, Martinez or Canelo fight.

The fact that Berto is signed with TMT makes this an even easier proposition, and I would not be surprised if there is an under the table agreement where both fighters agree to take it easy on one another.

Floyd will still be marketable if he delivers a stinker, because he always has the Pacquaio fight...or he can at least talk about the Pacquaio fight.

 

I'm not ignoring anything. I here what your saying I just think your completely wrong and your pics/videos don't show much of anything.

So again, if we agreed to dissagree why did you start debating with me in the first place?

Sorry bro, but simply "finding your lead foot on the outside of your opponents" isn't going to open up many doors against a fighter like Floyd. He has options EVEN IF Manny finds his lead foot on the outside.

You keep mentioning "southpaws." Well I'm going to mention "smaller fighters." He treats smaller fighters like rag dolls. Look at Marquez and Ricky. They were treated with very little to no respect. Floyd could walk down Manny and put Manny going backwards if he wanted. Something Manny would not be able to adjust to as it just isn't in his fight game. Pacquiao consistently overcommits on punches.

While NO fighter beating another fighter indicates a victory; Marquez's style and fight with Manny (especially the 3rd fight where he won 8 clear rounds) does indicate that Manny would find Floyd's style EXTREMELY complicated and hard to figure out. As the fight went on, Manny would be getting hit more and more with right hands and he would be hitting air more and more.

Manny would be "forced" to over commit as Floyd is a genius at controlling distance. Best at in the game today.

 

:good It gives Mayweather more time to think, and eases him into a rythm. Often you'll see Mayweather throw single shots in quick sucession. (Ortiz fight springs to mind) not quite combinations, but a little quicker than your standard pot shotting. That's where he finds a rythm. When he jabs, he establishes that timing, and things flow much more natrually for him. IMO anyways mate.

Yep, the Pacquaio who fought Cotto had the best chance IMO. The key was always his feet. He had to find a way to dictate the dynamic to Mayweather, and nobody in this era will do that by Boxing. Oscar did well, but Mayweather adjusted.

The wild card was how quick Pac could move his feet, coupled with Mayweather being open early in fights for a straight left hand. (I want to stress, that Mayweather eventually adjusts, and that punch is no longer a factor, yet Pacquaio's vastly improved right hook gives food for thought.) Watch Mayweather vs Hatton, Ricky had the feet to trouble Mayweather, if not the infighting ability or general offensive artillery.

Now the feet are gone, I think Pacquaio gets stopped. You can tell me he's fought harder punchers than Mayweather, but he hasn't fought guys who will hit him as often, nor plan their assault to the degree that I would compare to a tree surgeon chopping the big oak down.

 

For those that think Floyd will "walk Pac down," that is perhaps the worst possible strategy that Floyd can employ.

People don't realize that Pacquaio is one of the best counterpunchers in boxing, and his counters are devestating.

That's why his opponents consistantly pivot, (Bradley, Marquez), or run, (Cotto after he was knocked down several times, and Mosley after he was knocked down.) If they don't, they typically get knocked out or a severe beating, (Hatton and Margarito) recently.

Like Bogotazo said, Mayweather does not have the same type of lateral movement as Marquez or even Mosley. Mosley was using pivots, but his offense was completely ineffective.

Marquez, like Bogotazo said, could duck under Pacquaio's attacks in a way Mosley could not, so it made it too risky for him to throw punches.

Mayweather doesn't pivot like Mosley, and if, (like Bogotozo said), continues to move in straight lines, will back himself right into the ropes.

Manny is a dynamic fighter. He will not stand right in front of Mayweather and allow him to utilize his offense in the way Hatton and Cotto did.

He will use a more dyanmic angled approach and hit Mayweather with difficult to defend punches. Mayweather may show a lot of bravado, and initially look like he's able to weather the storm, but eventually reality will catch up to him...he will be getting hit.

I think he knows this, and that is why he's hesitant to fight Pacquaio because he can fight other fighters for millions of dollars that are less risky.

He's a businessman.

 

You guys putting dubs on "lateral movement." Skill factor is the main thing as is reach and distance.

Floyd would control Manny and he would be forced to fight how Floyd wanted him to fight.

 

Pivoting and lateral movement is a skill. How would you propose Floyd would get out of the way of Martinez long punches?

Obviously, he couldn't back up the way he does against shorter fighters.

Martinez would tag him. He would have to consistantly move laterally. Mosley learned the hard way how difficult this was, and was unable to sustain an offense and was reduced to running.

Cotto had the same problem, only seeming to have success with his jab, from time to time.

Even Ortiz was beggining to land on Floyd before he got "knocked out." So Floyd could adapt and start moving laterally, but that's a big adjustment considering he's not used to utilizing this style and he's not getting any younger.

Against Cotto, he acquiesed, and just retreated to the ropes and relied on his upperbody movement and reflexes to nullify his attack.

It's doubtful that Floyd would be able to utilize this gameplan against Pacquaio. Even Canelo offers serious problems due to his size, strenght, and ability to set up punches, especially against the ropes.

Canelo would magnify this if he used his strength and bullied Floyd against the ropes, and kept him off balance. Floyd wouldn't have any power behind his shots.

Pacquaio probably won't use this strategy, but Pacquaio has very strong legs, and could potentially push Floyd against the ropes, but it's doubtful.

More than likely, Pacquaio will use angles and explosive combination punching.

Bogotozo makes some very good points. It's more than likely Floyd sees the risk of Pacquaio as too high and potentially deterimental to his earning ability.

Much of Floyd's earning ability is predicated upon his appearence of looking unbeatable.

If he gets beat, especially if he gets knocked out, his earning power falls substantially. Floyd is not stupid. He knows this. That's why I think it's probably his next fight will be against Berto who has an impressive highlight real (albiet against mostly nobodies), but he's already signed with TMT, and doesn't have the style that causes Floyd problems.

I don't think Berto can beat Floyd in a boxing match by standing in front of him, which is exactly what he'll do. Even then, if I were Floyd, I would consider making an under the table agreement where we both agree to go easy on eachother, but I win the fight of course.

Floyd would still have earning ability in the event of a boring fight because he will still be undefeated. That could be his final fight anyway...until he finds another opponent that has a low risk/high reward ratio.

 

My analysis is posted throughout the thread.

Good post and I respect it.

The one thing I didn't respect in it (and you cleared it up with the word "I doubt.") is that Manny would be able to "push Floyd back." Manny never fights on the inside. He dips out once the fight is on the inside. Floyd would be smart enough and strong enough to push him around on the inside though.

 

Inside may be the last place emmanuel wants to be at against Mayweather

1) Mayweather is a ****in V-E-T-E-R-A-N on the inside. emmanuel still a beginner, ock

2) Southpaw angles are negated at close quarters.

 

I'd expect him to use the his own jab and Pacquiao's jab as a trigger. Flick out that jab, wait for Pacquiao to commit, then pop him with the right. Or, wait for Pacquiao's jab (has to be careful because Pacquiao throws the double) and use it to time his own jab, similar to how he did it against Ortiz. One big difference is, Ortiz played that jab right in to Mayweather's hands, he didn't commit to the jab and continually aimed for Mayweather's shoulder.

One thing Mayweather was doing early against Ortiz (using Ortiz because he's the most recent example of a southpaw) was throwing the right hand and pivoting to his right, getting that angle whilst avoiding the left. I believe he did this for 2 reasons though, firstly, to get his range (forcing his work to get his range) and secondly, Ortiz's best punch is arguably his right hook. Mayweather doesn't seem too concerned about lead foot position when it comes to southpaws, but he does have a healthy height and reach advantage which helps a little, but it leaves him open to that left hand of Pacquiao's after the initial engagement.

I wouldn't advise Mayweather to try this against Pacquiao, even now.

1. He's moving to Pacquiao's best punch.
2. After pivoting, he lands heavy and flat footed (never good to be too stationary against Pacquiao).

I would expect Mayweather to work off the jab against Pacquiao, use his height, reach and better footwork to keep the fight at long range. He loves to go back in straight lines and make people walk on to shots, then pivots off. But I'd assume he would want to smother Pacquiao's work at mid range and frustrate him, so I could see him backing up, and once he sees Pacquiao begin to commit, tie him up.