Marquez's knockout overhand right mirrors a Pacquiao left from 2008 (Round 10)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Bogotazo, Jan 1, 2013.


  1. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    In the same spirit of the thread I made concerning Marquez's 3rd round knockdown shot that made an earlier appearance in their first bout, I wanted to talk about another parallel I found interesting. In the last big right Pacquiao ran into at the end of the 6th, Marquez reads the feinted jab Manny throws, knowing he's about to come in with the 1-2. He leans his head backwards, triggering Manny to think he's in line for the straight shots, and then displaces his upper body by changing levels (something Marquez has had continuous success with in the last two bouts), replacing it with his punch.

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    In round 10 of their first rematch, Pacquiao lands a similar shot. This fight was the most competitive of the two IMO, but Manny needed that round badly. I had JMM winning the 6th, 7th (razor close), and I believe the 9th. Manny was cut and Marquez had him on a string, complimenting his counters with aggressive leads that confused the bleeding Pacquiao. But having improved his game a bit, Manny was now able to capitalize with a counter that won him the round. Marquez still dominated the last minute, countering off the ropes before regaining the center and having Manny's mouthpiece drop out as he continued to trickle blood from the eye, but this was Manny's most eye-catching shot of the bout aside from the knockdown.

    Lo and behold, he used a very similar tactic to the one Marquez used. Without a successful use of feints, an opposite-stance aggressor is nearly always at a disadvantage, since he cedes lead foot positioning practically every-time he steps forward, allowing his opponent to anticipate and side-step as he comes in. In this case, Marquez was having so much success with lead left hooks up top, he rushed forward too wide without anything else behind it, and allowed Manny to change levels himself, diverting his upper body rightwards while stepping to the right and launching a looped overhand left. Marquez sputtered forward and Manny ended up almost completely behind him.

    @ :38 seconds:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7noSRAxOxe8[/ame]

    This just demonstrates how their similar height is so essential to the dynamic between the two. Any change in levels from one changes the target objective and visual awareness of the other. The end of the 5th of their last bout shows both hanging in the pocket and swinging, with many shots from down low coming from Manny as he ducked and traded while JMM moved along the ropes, which is something he showed in training.

    Anyways, forgive the long-winded breakdown. Long story short, Manny landed a similar shot in the 10th round of their 2nd fight (obviously without the same leverage and success.) This was made into a GIF at some point at a better angle from the replay, so if anyone would like to dig it up and share, I'd appreciate it :bbb

    EDIT: Found it, courtesy of Igor!

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  2. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

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    I didnt read the whole thing but I'm assuming its the one where jmm stumbles for a sec after right? I remember that shot
     
  3. DobyZhee

    DobyZhee Loyal Member

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    JMM won fair and square

    Bradley made Pac old. Ask Morales when he fought Raheem
     
  4. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    interesting comparison.
     
  5. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

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    Has anyone noticed that Pac is far more successful against Marquez when he fires a customary 1-2, as opposed to the 1-1-2 that JMM seems to just wait for him to throw?

    Juan gets clocked repeatedly when attempting to counter Manny's 1-2, because there simply is not enough time. That second jab from the 1-1-2 seems to give him just the time he needs to get into position to counter.

    Pac just can't seem to figure out the right distance to not have to double jab his way in, though. Four fights and he doesn't get it.
     
  6. Slickstar

    Slickstar Crisp This Full Member

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    Mexicans have impressive chins
     
  7. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I agree, the 1-2 telegraphs less, but then again, a single jab often sees Marquez counter with a left uppercut from down low or a slip/parry + right hand counter. Can't blame him for trying to mix it up, Juan is just usually a step ahead.
     
  8. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

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    Watch Marquez duck down to counter the 1-2, leave himself wide open, and eat clean leather for his trouble. It's the same double step, but it's less exaggerated and the jab is actually well-placed. Manny has the proper distance here.
     
  9. luciuslim

    luciuslim Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed, no one should question Mannys offensive skills and who knows, if Marquezs foot work was worse he may have gotten lit up the way Manny did.
     
  10. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Manny anticipated Marquez's low ducking a lot better this time. He'd feint as if committing, and instead of falling in and allowing JMM to rip his body on the inside, he'd hang back and throw shorter, more accurate shots at JMM's already altered position. Marquez adjusted by slipping leftwards outside of the right jab instead of rightwards towards the inside, which is smarter given the trajectory of the straight left.
     
  11. steviebruno

    steviebruno ESB NYC Delegate banned Full Member

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    That's some really high-risk **** that JMM does. No matter what Manny changes, Juan knows that the straight left is Pac's first love and he just waits for him to try and throw it.
     
  12. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    :thumbsup

    Time and time again, Marquez has to wade into the eye of the storm, playing a game of inches to get his counters off.
     
  13. Urone2

    Urone2 Active Member Full Member

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    it seem to me the JMM changed the game on Manny, Manny had been dropped earlier with the looping right hand. When Manny moved forward on his double jab, I think he might have been trying to get inside of the right hook that had dropped him earlier and ran full speed into the straight right that knocked him out. For me it was hard to figure out why Manny continue to move straight in when JMM came with the straight right hand, I think it was because he anticipated a looping right.
     
  14. jan_fan

    jan_fan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It was a hail mary punch. It wasn't the same.
    Never was
     
  15. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Who's claiming they were identical? They were similar looping rear-handed shots that followed a step toward's each man's ideal direction and a re-positioning of the upper body.