Martinez: Now he's (Williams) good for Pac!!

This guy really never stops about talking about the midget.
Is he really that butthurt for the longest time?
Go fight where you belong buddy

 

How about recognizing that he's already done that...he wasn't a Middleweight, he had to go up in weight because he couldn't get a fight. Please stop...

 

But both have said they would fight him...so I'm not sure why everyone shits on Martinez, they both (PBF and Manny), have said they would fight him...so what's the problem, he's ready to fight.

 

Because he is trying to make himself relevant. There's nothing wrong with that. It's good that there's Sergio. Both Pacquiao and Floyd cannot fight at 154 other than Segio else they will be accused of ducking him.

 

Saying and doing, is a different matter all-together. Not sure about Floyd, but Manny's lot have made it pretty clear that they don't want to fight him. Thinking he would laugh off 150, they said "Sure, Sergio. We'll fight you at 150 :good". Then upon realizing he was that desperate, they dropped further down to 147.

You might be reading that differently from the rest of us, but, it's pretty clear that they have no interest in fighting him.

 

He called Pacquiao a coward for letting Arum make his decisions for him. He also upped the hostile rhetoric only when he said he would make 150 (which both Pacquiao and Roach said they'd be willing to accept) and was greeted with a demand for 147.

I'd also love to hear what this "similar streak of cherry-picking" consists of since Martinez has never really been in a position to cherry-pick. Fighting Barker instead of Pirog or whichever other undecorated Eastern European people are hyping up at the moment does not constitute a streak.

170 would still be a bigger climb for Martinez than what he's asking Pacquiao or Mayweather to do and would be a weight he's never fought at (much less held a trinket at) two division above where he currently is. Again Hopkins pretty much immediately declared that Martinez would have to go to 175 to fight him. If you're really going to hold what Martinez said in the immediate aftermath of a fight against him, then I hope you do so for other guys as well.

Martinez said he'd fight anyone up to 164, plus Ward is certainly lower reward than Bute anyway.

Why is he not allowed to respond negatively to this goalpost shifting?

 

Exactly!

 

He’s called Pacquiao a coward and questioned his status as a top fighter, numerous times and for numerous reasons. Not just because Arum makes his decisions for him. And when Team Pac mentioned 150 and 147 alongside being too small to go up in weight again, it’s pretty obvious that their 150 and 147 talk was/is just hollow. Mentioning the weight they know/think Martinez will not agree to, means they are not serious about a fight, and never have been.

I find it hard to believe that a light middleweight in Dzinziruk and a Euro-level fighter in Barker, were the best that Martinez could get hold of in the whole 2011. Pirog may well be overhyped, but the public regarded him as a better fight than those two, and I don’t know what the exact reasons were/are for that fight not happening. If they really wanted to, I believe that fight could be made.

What Hopkins said afterwards, isn’t really important. Martinez’s reaction to the prospect of fighting a guy two weight divisions bigger, is what I’m talking about. The man almost choked at the thought of doing something that’s close to what he once proposed to Pac (154 offer). When you consider everything in regards to size and weight – reach, height, in-ring weight, etc – Hopkins facing Martinez at 170 is not hugely different to Martinez fighting Pac at 154. I say “not hugely”, because that two pound difference in catchweight, is more or less counterbalanced when you consider the fact that Martinez and Hopkins are closer in size than what Martinez and Pac are.

Yet, Martinez laughed the prospect of this off. Meaning even if Hopkins never declared 175 and conceded to the equal meeting of 168, Martinez would still not have been too keen on it.

Martinez mentioning 164 for Ward, in my opinion, is because he knows it’s very unlikely that Ward would do it. I’m pretty confident that if Ward was to consider it, Martinez and DiBella’s tune would change. Kinda' similar to Pac and Roach mentioning 150.

Goalpost shifting on talk that was never serious to begin with? If he wants to waste his time chasing shadows, then by all means, he can carry on. But Team Pac couldn’t be more clear with what their intentions were when mentioning 150 and 147. They are not, and never have been, keen on fighting Sergio.

 

I heard Pacquiao mention he may fight Sergio at 150. But considering the backslash he may get I think he should just forget about it. Unless Sergio try to fight at 154 first and see what he can do there before entertaining any May/Pac fight.

 

Williams fits the mold.

Get Knocked out
Come back and win a fight very unimpressively
Get owned by pacquiao. Except in this fight, I'm not sure if Pacquiao would win :think

 

The recent talk of cowardice was in regard to Arum making his decisions for him. I don't believe Martinez has ever called him one in response to his refusal to fight him.

Martinez had nothing to do with choosing Dzinziruk; that was entirely HBO's decision and as a result cannot reasonably regarded as a cherrypick. The network also actively does not want Pirog back. Search for "Why Pirog isn't fighting in the US" from the Scene; there are several quotes from Gabriel Montoya essentially verifying this sentiment. Quite frankly, I regard Dzinziruk as a better opponent than Pirog anyway. The same goes for Macklin, and I also don't think Pirog's considerably better than Barker either.

Dramatic much? He said 170 was a lot of weight for him while his manager yelled no in the background. Then he said he was happy to fight whoever as long as they come to an agreement on the weight.

I also find it interesting that you're so happy to disregard what Hopkins said afterwards, but suggest that "reading between the lines" reveals Pacquiao's true intentions. Hopkins wanting Martinez at 170 was about as realistic as Pacquiao wanting him anywhere.

We've been over this before, but I think the situations are still fundamentally different since Martinez hasn't even fought at the next closest weight class.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion at all.

Ward's far more likely to make 164 than Bute is to make 166, and given the fact that Martinez is a bigger draw than him, also more likely to actually accept that fight.

It's perfectly fine to call them out on that though, just like it was for Shane back in 2009, especially given the fact that Roach seems to enjoy trashing Martinez knowing full well not one of his guys will ever have to face him.

 

Martinez is a little lady, scared of fighting anyone his own size. Tired of listening to him cry.

 

I don’t know about any recent “coward” talk, but he’s been on Pac’s back for quite a while now; discrediting his standing as a top P4P fighter, etc, for not wanting to face him.

Maybe so. The streak of cherry-picked opponents is a little out of line, then.

The reactions on his face and his smirk that dismissed the thought of it, said all that was needed. Fighting a guy who’s two weight divisions bigger at a catchweight, was out of the question.

Yes, I am happy to dismiss the Hopkins comment of 175 afterwards, because that’s not what I’m concerned about. Instead, the prospect of fighting Hopkins at 170 was put forward to him, and it was that that was dismissed immediately without second thoughts. There was no consideration of bringing Hopkins further down to meet in the middle. Just a quick reference to meeting opponents at reasonable catchweights (without mentioning specific names), a chuckle at the prospect of going up that high in weight, and a firm no. Regardless of whether Hopkins afterwards confirmed the catchweight or not, the idea was still proposed to him [Martinez], and he thought it was too irrational to consider it seriously.

Whether a fighter has fought at a specific weight or not, is not as important as the fighter’s actual potential/physical tools to fight there. After fighting at 150 just once, Pacquiao immediately returned to 147 vowing to never go further up in weight anymore. He walks around mid 150s and the highest he’s ever walked in the ring is 148 (barely being past the weltwerweight limit after being hydrated). Martinez, on the other hand, walks around at 180, and has come into the ring as high as 170 (bang on that potential catchweight – something Pacquiao couldn’t do with 154 and even 150). And when you consider Martinez’s height and reach as well, he’s easily closer to Hopkins’ size than Pacquiao is to Martinez’s; thus making Martinez-Hopkins at 170 at least as equally viable as Pacquiao-Martinez at the 154 that he once proposed.

So, just because Pacquiao did the one-off thing of fighting at that weight once (and immediately going back down), it doesn’t mean he should be then obliged to take on challenges back there every time they pop up. I mean, he doesn’t even want to fight Cotto any higher than 147. How much more obvious can it be that he doesn’t belong at 150-154 any more than Martinez belongs at 168-170?

It's pure speculation, but it's something I'm pretty sure would happen. And reasonably so, because Martinez has no obligation to go way out of his comfort zone to fight a bigger, stronger and more dangerous opponent.

I disagree. Didn't Ward fight as a light heavyweight as an amateur? I think he'd be less keen to move down than Bute would. The latter at least has given consideration to coming down, whereas Ward has always talked about moving up.

Not that I particularly care about or condone Roach's trashing of Martinez, but, Martinez has been talking crap on his fighter for the best part of a whole year now. All unprovoked, too. Because Pac and Roach had never mentioned Martinez once, until he [Martinez] started mouthing off. So of course Roach isn't going to have any kind words to say about him.

 

I simply don't see how you can draw conclusions like this from an interview immediately after he got done with a fight.

That's all well and good, but the justifiability of calling someone out is in my opinion driven by whether or not that person has fought at the weight class where one wants the fight to take place. Beyond that, as I'm sure you'll agree, Martinez going down to 150 is fairer for Pacquiao than Martinez fighting Hopkins at 170 is for him. I also believe the most Martinez has ever officially weighed was 177, which was in the aftermath of the Pavlik fight. Prior to the Dzinziruk fight (which was at the full 160 and not the 158 the Williams bout was held at), he was back in the low 170s at the 30 day weigh-in.

I don't think Pacquiao is under any obligation to fight Martinez but I don't think there's anything untoward in Martinez's comments on the subject, especially since the very trinket Pacquiao won belonged to him immediately prior to the Margarito fight.

Ward's said he'd move down to 160 for the right opponent, though I always got the impression he was referring to an extremely ambitious Mayweather. Since both have been fighting on Showtime lately, we don't have their most recent in-ring weights. Against Johnson, Bute had rehydrated 9.6 pounds by the morning of the fight. He's also been rumored to have problems making weight recently, and I think Ward's frame would facilitate a move down far more than Bute's would. Plus I believe Ward fights close to his walking around weight a la Froch.

Roach in fact said he thought the Martinez fight should be next immediately after he knocked out Williams and I believe the 150 number originally came from him. Of course he has also claimed that Quillin would beat Martinez (immediately after Quillin's side turned down a Martinez fight) and spent much of the past year talking up Chavez Jr.'s chances against him as well.