Marvelous Marvin Hagler speaks out about the Sugar Ray Leonard fight ~ Listen In

Hagler and his trainers should have known how Leonard would fight. He should have imposed himself on Leonard from the get go NOT plod after him like an old George Foreman all the while allowing Leonard to move away easily and fire off quick fire combos to steal rounds.

 

:good

 

Where did Hagler say that Leonard won ?? :huh

 

Thanks, Rummy. :good

I thought it sounded like an excessive amount of spin.

:-(

 

Again, you're mis-interpreting the meaning of what Hagler is saying, and taking the "have to beat the champion convincingly" thing too literally.

Hagler is saying that the judges took away his title, he wasn't beaten, and the closeness of the fight should not give anyone the right to re-designate who should hold the championship.
I agree with that in principle.

As I posted earlier, and I challenge anyone to show me where I'm wrong, rounds that are so close that people say they "could go the other way" should be marked as EVEN, if fairness of the overall decision is important.

I dont see how anyone can say "yeah, the decision could have easily gone the other way" and then say it's FAIR that the champion lost his title on such a lottery-like decision. Obviously a DRAW and a REMATCH makes most sense.

Not to mention that the ACTUAL scores of this fight feature the 118-110 score to Leonard that I dont see anyone defending.
If all three judges scored it like that we'd want an investigation, but when it's just the deciding score in an apparently close fight of a split-decision, people try to say it's not even important ?!!
Again, where's the logic ?

 

I can't for the life of me see how this works.

Judges score things round by round then tally them up at the end.

They may not have even seen Haglers declaration, and certainly not have cared.

There have been thousands of occasions boxers boldly predicted a KO.

We have three different people, via your reach who is to say one or more wasn't impressed and thereby biased the other (Hagler's) way? It's a very wild statement.

I'm feeling a bit of Zen in the room around now. Boxers predict many things, sometimes they ring true, sometimes not. Not predicting a KO sure doesn't make it impossible to have one.

The other thing, and it's glaringly obvious is that if the fight was 12 rounds it would have unfolded far far differently, gee. If SRL is behind with 2 or 3 to go in a 12 rounder he simply turns it on earlier. It's ludicrous to speculate Hearns would have won a 12 rounder because he was ahead after 12 in a 15 rounder, or that Duran would have beat Hagler under the same criteria etc.

Quite simply Leonard outclassed and out thought him both in and out of the ring. Hagler should have done this and that but quite simply, under this particular gun, he didn't have the intangibles to pull it off.

Needing someone to cut him in order to fall upon the right strategy reeks of fallibility. Don't forget, he and Hearns were warring with all the intensity in the world long before the cut. It wasn't a case of him ambling around getting outsped, copping a cut and going berko all of a sudden.

 

I don't get this coming forward argument. I don't care which direction a fighter moves in, I'm looking at clean punches.

Anyway, from memory I think the punch count was fairly even (for what it's worth, don't think counts are anything more than an indicator). I could be wrong though.

At the same time I don't think Leonard could have gone 15 rounds with Hagler. Fighters can pace themselves to some extent but even so 15 rounds is always, ALWAYS harder than 12.

Leonard won the first 30 secs and the last 30 secs of most of the rounds. I also thought he won his rounds more clearly. IMO (1) Ray deserved the verdict, (2)would not have lasted the full 15 and (3) made me lose all respect when he didn't grant a rematch but came back to win 2 titles at that phoney weight against LaLonde.

 

I wouldn't call Monzon a psycho to his face either, doesn't mean he isn't one.:good

Never questioned Hagler as a warrior inside the ring, but this kind of bitching soon get's old. And fans of boxing shouldn't warm to it as they do.

 

I agree all the way here (tho I had Leonard by 2 pts)

 

Clean punches is priority.
But if both fighters move back and wait for the other guy to come forward there's no fight.
If both fighters come forward there's a fight.

I'm not an extreme advocate of that thinking but I do think it makes proper sense, and I factor it in to scoring fights - to some extent at least.

I am however quite strongly against the blatant stalling and holding that some fighters do, when they tie the other man up with absolutely no intention of letting go or attempting to fight out, and simply wait for the referee to save them. I dont understand people who score a fight and REWARD the fighter who's doing that. If the fighter wants to stay at long range he should stay at long range, but if the opponent gets inside he should have to fight his way out. Holding shouldn't be rewarded.

That's interesting. I thought the clearest rounds were Hagler's where he stunned Leonard and had him backing up, looking tired and hanging on.

 

What do you find so wrong with it ? He's just saying he won the fight and feels he got jobbed by the judges.
Why do you say "this type of bitching" when he's got every right to say he thinks he won and he thinks the judges jobbed him out of the title on a close fight.
You want him to lie when asked and say something phoney just to come across as an unrealistically "nice guy" ?

I scored the fight narrowly for Hagler, and certainly reckon the 118-110 score for Leonard taints the merits of the decision regardless of who you think won.
I think a draw would have been acceptable.

I think a rematch was in order, and I'd be saying that even if Hagler had gotten the decision.

 

Good to see that more people as the pages go on think Hagler won the fight. I think he won too. I was not impressed with what Leonard was doing, he was throwing too many pitty pat shot's and was running and not boxing alot. He didn't even jab and move at times, he ran in quite a few rounds. He didn't run the whole fight of course, but he did run a good number. You can tell he was more affected by Hagler's punches than he was affecting Hagler. He looked hurt at times, but he ran so much in the second half of the fight, that he avoided any kind of stoppage.

 

Good (& very true) post