Marvin Hagler NOT Top 10 All Time @160lbs

And his signature win was stopping a 34 year old Zale ?

 

Hagler is top 10 for sure. You can argue not top 5.

 

I'd be happy to hear/read/watch any evidence, which adequately puts a case for why Hagler shouldn't be rated as being amongst the Top-10 ATG Middleweights.

 

You sound like you have a vendetta because you position your argument around points like trying to prove Hagler did not have an all time great chin when the fact that he did is without question. Then dealing in half truths like Robinson KOing 100 men when the vast majority were not middleweights .. trying to say Manzon's opposition was better is another reach .. the being said most of the fighters you mention were terrific and who beats who is open to a real debate on the topic.

 

While some of your arguments are fine, like Hagler maybe could get outboxed by some of those fighters, you are discrediting Hagler a lot, could Hagler take bombs?, that's even a question?, that chin was unbreakable, and if you are saying that Hagler wasn't anything special, you should watch more of him, Hagler was a hell of a boxer, the best switch hitter the game has seen, great southpaw, unbreakable chin and will, skilled, great at the backfoot, fearless, fast, hard punching beast, Duran is a top 10 p4p ever, there is no shame saying he gave Hagler a tough fight.
Isn't the fight of Duran that proves he could deal with most of those fighters you mention it, is the fact that he fought all the contenders for getting a chance at the title, he destroyed the champion and destroyed everyone to become the undisputed champion, he fought the best there was for him, Hearns didn't broke his hand by hitting pillows, Hagler's chin was just too hard, and Hearns was gassed by the 3th, and Hearns is my favorite boxer, so you should know he went to win titles in supermiddle and light heavy, it wasn't like Hearns was a super blown up 160.

could Hagler deal with Langfords dynamite bombs? Yes, he could deal with anyone bombs.
could Hagler win a single round against Roy Jones Jr. ? If Griffith gave Jones a hell of a fight, Hagler surely could.
could Hagler avoid being clobbered` by Monzon's heavy fists? Like i said, his chin is unbreakable.
could Hagler withstand Freddie Steele's two-fisted attacks? Yes.
could Hagler brawl with Mickey Walker or Gene Fullmer? Yes, both.
could Hagler intimidate and beat James Toney or BHop? Probably not intimidate, but could outbox them to death.
could Hagler withstand the onslaught from Harry Greb? I haven't seen Greb fight.
could Hagler handle the power & skill of Ray Robinson? Handle?, yes, beat him?, probably not.
could Hagler deal with the onslaught from Marcel Cerdan? Yes.
was Hagler tough enough to deal with Jake LaMotta? Yes.
how could Hagler deal with a boxing master in Ezzard Charles? Yes.
could Hagler deal with Bob Fitzsimmons? Yes.

Hagler isn't my favorite boxer, but only a blind man couldn't see he was a special fighter, in all the meaning of the word.

 

What little credibility you had on this thread was lost with this post.

 

No, it was a slip. The hook caught Hagler on the back of the head. Hagler even said it himself that it was a slip. Hearns broke his right hand in the opening round hitting Hagler as hard as he could. Hagler was barely hurt for like 5 seconds and that is closest he came to being in trouble his entire career.

Robinson and Monzon would not be favorites over Hagler. Hearns hit harder than all 5 of those guys and couldn't keep Hagler off him. Langford didn't do that impressive of stuff at 160. Robinson knocked out over 100 men but why couldn't he knock out Kid Gavilan, a welterweight? To say any Middleweight in history could knock out Hagler is ludicrous. Hagler proved that against killers like Hearns and Mugabi. Monzon's record is severly lacking. BHop barely fought true middleweights and missed a lot of guys during the 90s. Hagler wasn't just a southpaw he was a switch hitter.

Every post you make shows your lack of understanding/knowledge of Hagler. You have NOT put forward an excellent case analysis of why he isn't Top 10 worthy in fact it has been extremely inconsistent. Case in point being the h2h match ups.

Have you even looked at the heavies Fitz knocked out? KO Sweeney, Charlie Haghey, Mike Ranke , just to name a few. They weren't exactly the cream of the crop.

 

completely indefensible. just try and make that argument.

no, he wasn't, not even close. you expose yourself as completely lacking knowledge by saying that. try and make a worthwhile argument that cerdan was one of the greatest ever. you can't because he wasn't even close.

 

I think Hagler's a good, but a bit overrated as a boxer, and his ring generalship and sometimes guts for exchanges leave me wondering how he does vs other fighters who were faster or bigger than say, Hearns or Duran.

Could Hagler deal with Langford's dynamite bombs? Maybe, maybe not. But Would Hagler respect him too much?

Could Hagler win a single round against Roy Jones Jr? For sure but I think he needs a stoppage to win.

Could Hagler avoid being clobbered` by Monzon's heavy fists? It would be a heck of a fight. Monzon might take it on points.

Could Hagler intimidate and beat James Toney or BHop? Not imitate, outbox, maybe, maybe not.

Could Hagler deal with the onslaught from Marcel Cerdan? Never proven.

Could Hagler deal with Bob Fitzsimmons? Take his punch, I'll say no. Out box, hard to say. Likely

 

What fights have you seen Cerdan in? He beat a few guys in the hall of fame and avenged all losses, save LaMotta who fouled him to win. I think Cerdan is a top 10 middle. A powerhouse with a good defense.

 

i've seen every cerdan fight that is publicly available. he was a decent fighter who was inexperienced at world level and too small for mw. both show.

not a few hof's, 2, and both of those 2 were completely shot. shot williams who never had another decent win and shot zale in his last fight. hagler's resume shits all over cerdan's, and at mw it's not even worth discussing.

imo at ww he was a legit euro champion and a h2h force, at mw he was average, and based on resume and film he is one of the least proven and most beatable mw champs in history.

 

how much will you bet? we can use this site to prove i have discussed, and therefore heard of, cerdan before today.

take the bet fool. if not, shut the **** up.

edit: you saw 30 cerdan fights on a tour showing fights from more than one fighter? that doesn't make any sense. you are full of ****. why don't you post the list of the 30 cerdan fights you have 'seen', because from what i can tell there aren't that many in existence.

you forgot to defend greaves>vito, well, not forgot, you just couldn't.
you forgot to defend cerdan as a great mw, well, not forgot, you just couldn't.

 

I'd be the last person to make a case that Hagler shouldn't be put in the top 10, but I can imagine a reasonable top 10 that doesn't include him.

For example, someone could have Bob Fitzsimmons, Harry Greb, Sugar Ray Robinson, Stanley Ketchel, Charley Burley, Freddie Steele, Holman Williams, Fred Apostoli, Carlos Monzon, Marcel Thil ....