Marvin Hagler NOT Top 10 All Time @160lbs

My name is not Sean and I've never traded or bought from a UK contact .
One poster on this forum who is English and whose Dad was a British and European champ ,and three times challenger for a world title was kind enough to send me some obscure films on dvd, but he is domiciled in Spain.You don't know me and I sure don't want to know you.

 

There are not 30 out there ,and Frankenstein has so far not responded to requests for the films he has seen.

 

There are but can we get serious about the level of opposition on those films ? Itlooks like he's fighting guys from his army training camp .. I happen to like Cerdan a lot and actually started a thread on him a while back inquiring for more info on him .. my understanding is that he was a fast, tough swarming sort of guy but most of his major career wins were at welter .. it appears his middleweight resume is kind of thin at the top level ..

 

There are not 30 out there ,and Frankenstein has so far not responded to requests for the films he has seen.

Cerdan never fought 30 middleweights,and over half of those he did fight were domestic level at best.

 

Can you not make a point without trying to distort what I said?

 

I think Cerdan probably did fight at least 30 middleweights or bigger, since even on boxrec I can count 28 men who weighed over welterweight limit. And the weights are every incomplete.

 

The onus is not on me to prove it.Several of the defences he had of the EU middleweight title were against welters eg Walzack and Tenet ,they may have been over 147 at fight night but they were essentially welterweights. Point is, a good 65% of his resume is against weak opposition.Some may feel he justifies a top ten rating, but I don't see how anyone can say he should be rated above Hagler.

 

You say he never fought 30 middleweights.
If you make that statement you should know how many he did fight.
You may well be correct, but if you state something as fact why isn't the onus on you to prove it?

 

Out of curiosity, why is Cerdan too small for a middleweight? He's 1 inch shorter than Greb. Cerdan at 160 is a top 10 ATG hitter and has a very good chin.

Least proven? He has wins over Zale, Turpin, Abrams, and H. Williams, aren't these guys in the hall of fame too?
Cerdan died at age 32, and IMO would have beaten LaMotta in the re-match

 

The onus is not on me to prove it. - Mcvey

Yes, is someone makes a claim, he should back it up.

 

QUOTE="Mendoza, post: 18195235, member: 19227"]Out of curiosity, why is Cerdan too small for a middleweight? He's 1 inch shorter than Greb. Cerdan at 160 is a top 10 ATG hitter and has a very good chin.

Least proven? He has wins over Zale, Turpin, Abrams, and H. Williams, aren't these guys in the hall of fame too?
Cerdan died at age 32, and IMO would have beaten LaMotta in the re-match[/QUOTE]


Zale was washed up so apparently was Williams, Turpin is in the HOF? He was never above domestic level, ranked for about a month in 1948 .

Cerdan' CV at 160lbs is very shallow as regards quality .To be fair to him he was probably a bit past prime when he first went to the States.If anyone felt generous they could include him in an AT top ten,[he doesn't make mine] but there is no case to rank him above Hagler,imo.
Cerdan a top atg hitter? I don't see that, a good puncher .

Very good chin? Which bangers did he face to prove this, a washed up Zale?
I can't rank Cerdan above Tiger ,Giardello,or Apostoli that's 3 guys who don't make many to ATG tens.
Was Cerdan even better than other French middles such as Dauthille,Thil,Villemain or the Belgian Delannoit whom he split 2 fights with.? Their resumes compare favourably with his.

PS. Cerdan was 33 at the time of his death,his prime was over.

 

Like you've never done?lol

 

An eleven word sentence, and you couldn't even get that right!

 

You're making the claim he did aren't you?

 

The best mw he fought looked made him look small for the weight imo, but that was lamotta who is big and strong.

we are both wrong on hof opponents, Abrams makes 3 shot hof fame opponents with a combined 6-11-1 featuring zero decent wins following fighting cerdan. Dick(richard) turpin isn't in the hall.

due to the injury there is not much to say about a potential rematch so i'm not saying anything against picking cerdan, but i'm picking the better, younger, more experienced and bigger guy, who is fighting at home and won the first fight.