Marvin Hagler vs Carlos Monzon

Monzon decision.

 

T,you are right. Harry Greb's frenetic speed would make it seem that
Carlos Monzon was stuck in concrete. And Greb BEAT bigger and stronger
men as Gunboat Smith, Gene Tunney, Tommy Gibbons, Billy Miske,
Jack Dillon, Maxie Rosenbloom, all LH's that could not hit solidly the
amazing Harry Greb. And to boot I give a healthy Freddie Steele to beat the slower Monzon. Monzon can never outpoint Harry Greb and no one in almost 290 bouts could ko the iron chinned Iron City Express...

 

Monzon-Hagler would be a great match between two ATGs. I see it as being a very close fight, no knockdowns, and Monzon winning a unanimous decision.

 

Because he wasn't the greatest middleweight champion...Monzon was, in my humble opinion. Monzon's record title defenses...going unbeaten since '64, avoided no one, and retired unbeaten as champion..he was the easily the most dominant middleweight champion and would have, IMo beaten Greb as well. Oh, and I know that you'll say "Hopkins beat Monzon's record...and that may be true if you cound those ununified BS defenses he made in a very, lets say, ..mediocre middleweight division...but he recieved his comeuppance against Bernard Taylor, who would have never beaten Monzon.

 

Boone has even seen greb fight so Gtfo monzon is slow as a bird and hagler would wreck him

 

Wrong.

This is some epic nuthugging right here. Greb was KO'd by George Chip's brother.

 

Burt,

I am not yet convinced that Harry Greb was a better middleweight - Prime for Prime than the Gibbons brothers (although of course, Gibbons was known more as a light heavy or heavyweight). It is close, and i am certainly open to convincing but I think it is an each way proposition. (and of course Les Darcy was always the better fighter until fate intervened!).

One thing about Monzon which cant be argued is that he was definitely the no 1 middleweight of his time. Actually it is a real shame that an old Carlos Monzon didnt stick around to fight a young Marvin Hagler. Would have been absolutely great glimpse of what a prime for prime fight would ahve looked like even though it wouldnt really tell us much.

 

I ultimately like Hagler to exploit Monzon's slowness of hand, as he slips the trombone jab and counters to the body, gradually breaking King Carlos down. Hagler most likely either takes a decision or could quite possibly wear Monzon down late.

 

Monzon would land the clean, heavier blow early. Specially that straight right on Hagler's southpaw stance. But i think, as the fight goes on, Hagler stops to box and goes all out at close range, where i think he throws shorter, more accurate shots.

I got Marv by Split Decision.

 

Hagler had the tendency to be intimidated by big-name guys with big reps and then he would fight tentatively. Examples being his fights with Briscoe, Leonard and Duran. All those guys were past their primes and they still either beat him or nearly beat him. I think he would fight in a similar fashion against a prime Carlos and lose a fairly easy decision.

 

sir, I might be "nuthugging" but I KNOW my boxing history, whilst you KNOW ZILCH. To bring up Harry Greb as a young prelim boy in his FIRST year fighting a MUCH bigger heavier experienced Joe Chip who stopped
young Harry, as a reason Carlos Monzon beats a PRIME Greb who fought
about 280 bouts AFTER WITHOUT ever being stopped again, shows me
you should brush up on your boxing history...To favor Carlos Monzon to beat an immortal Harry Greb is fair game , but to cite a prelim boy Greb
losing to Joe Chip a main eventer shows that this prelim bout proves
squat is darn silly...

 

Bull ****. There's a difference between being intimidated and fighting a smart fight - if anyone were to intimidate Hagler, it would have been Hearns - how did he approach that one? I think you know how.

Do you think Mustafa Hamsho intimidated Hagler, or did he just fight smart?

Hagler was never intimidated by anyone. Of course, he was aware of Briscoe and Duran and their inside prowess and he wanted to win and not get dragged into brawls where he thought things could get sticky for no real gain. Worked fine versus Briscoe but not so much against the more advanced counter puncher.

With Leonard, he fought on his wrong side and gave away some rounds - fair enough, a tactical mishap; if I could criticise Hagler in any way it would be for his mediocre tactical awareness which was often spot on but sometimes vitally wrong (Antuofermo, Leonard, Duran and perhaps even Roldan).

You would be right to imply that his tactical skills or lack thereof would cost him against Monzon - and I would agree - but Hagler was certainly never intimidated.

Oh, and Briscoe never came close to beating Hagler, having fielded four punches to every one he landed for the whole ten rounds. Duran's performance was surprising and valiant but slightly overrated for me by about two or three rounds.

 

We all have our opinions B as to who was the greatest MW. As you and I
have never seen the Gibbons boys or Greb fight I go by two criteria's.
1- Almost all of the boxing fraternity of the 20s chose Harry Greb as the best MW of their time, by a vast majority including Nat Fleischer, Whitey Bimstein, Mickey Walker etc.
2- Greb fought almost THREE times the amount of bouts that the Gibbon's boys did and fought bigger HOFamers time and time again successfully
than Mike or Tommy did...So I am on safe ground picking Harry Greb as #1
3- As for Les Darcy we have no way of knowing how his career would have progressed had he not died so tragically young. We are not sure if he was
a better MW than Dave Sands who also died way too young.
4- Yes too bad Monzon and Hagler didn't collide in their primes as a lot of questions would have been answered as to who was the better MW...
5- So on the basis of Harry Greb's unparralleled record of beating much bigger great fighters than himself as Tunney, Dillon, Gibbons, Gunboat Smith, Miske, Rosenbloom, Tommy Loughran, even heavies as bill Brennan [4], Kid Norfolk, toughie Willie Meehan etc, I along with Greb's contemporaries choose the Pittsburgh Windmill as the MW who beat
the roster of HOF fighters that no other MW in history could duplicate, and certainly Carlos Monzon who never entertained going after the top lightheavies of his day...Cheers...

 

I never said thats the reason Monzon would beat him. Show me where I said that. I just refuted your claim he never got knocked out when he did. Although I think Monzon, Hagler and Les Darcy all do beat him.