Marvin Hagler vs Roy Jones, Jr @ 160

Marvin never fought at LHW.

We don't know what would have happened.

He had a granite chin though.

 

Jones would hesitate like he did v Griffin he didn`t lie Griffin`s fast counters and Hagler was an exellent counter puncher from a southpaw stance, Jones bout v Harding was very negative also plus he was dropped, if Roy came out like he did in his rematch v Griffin he would be destroyed early.

 

Hagler would probably have to be the favorite but I really don't get why people think Jones doesn't even have a chance.

 

Not at MW, no.

I agree.

It would have been a great fight.

I'm not saying that Marvin couldn't have won, but many people are selling Roy short here.

Like Mendoza has noted, he didn't always use the right tactics and he was bothered by movement.

The fact that Roy lacked fundamentals and had a unique, unorthadox style, would have played to his advantage.

That style would make even great fighters hesitant.

 

Jones too slick, too fast. UD Jones 10, 12, or 15 rounds makes no difference.

 

Give it a rest.

You are absolutely obsessed with Montell Griffin.

Eric Harding was a big LHW who fought nothing like Marvin.

Who was dropped?

This is not a version of Roy in his 30's at LHW.

This is a version of Roy in his 20's at MW, against a fellow MW.

 

Because I have a different perspective from yours, it's a poor post?
Or are you just arrogant
Johnson was at the end of career and was getting to the
stage of lose win lose . Is Johnson considered a ATG
or special In anyone's book but yours?
M.Griffith was another "Much ado about nothing" fighter,
who's only 15 minutes of fame came by faking being
hurt, to get a DQ against Jones. Is he considered a great
fighter to anyone but you?
Jones picked Ruiz because he knew he was no threat,
their were better heavies around, did he try them? Is
Ruiz considered great or special to anyone but you?
Smoke and mirrors friend.
Don't get fooled by fools gold.

 

No, I'm not arrogant, but you are clearly showing bias.

If you can't see that, then I suggest you reread through your posts.

I never said Reggie was an ATG. But yes, that was a great win, considering that Roy toyed with him like no other fighter ever did.

Montell Griffin showed in his fights with Roy and James Toney, that he was a very good technical fighter, with very good skills. Was it not extremely impressive for Roy to have taken him out with a lead uppercut in under a round?

You're going to criticise a 34 year old former MW for not pursuing Lennox Lewis and Vitali, and give zero credit for him easily beating John Ruiz?

Really?

Do I consider Ruiz great?

Where have I said that?

I've never said that. But yes, I consider it a great win due to the circumstances.

List me all of the other former MW's who went up and easily dominated a top 10 HW at 34.

It won't be a long list.

There was no smoke and mirrors.

Roy dominated for 15 years and only a handful of fighters truly wanted to fight him when he was prime.

 

Lol no chance in hell would Hagler be a favorite over Roy.

Again the exact strategy Leonard used is what Roy specialized at.

 

It's ok to have an opinion - but, when you start referring to your opinion (and a biased one, no less) as a "fact", you do not serve the putting of your case very well.

I'm not sure what your definition of a boxer's mobility is, but Hagler had excellent footwork; moved exceedingly well; was able cover good ground and re-position himself in situ, quite effortlessly; in both defense and attack. Just how much of Hagler have you watched?

I'm really not sure what you are objecting to, here.

 

Nobody is saying that Marvin didn't have great mobility.

Marvin had great mobility.

The definition of mobility:

Hand speed

Footwork

Reflexes

Athleticism

Offensively

Defensively

Pretty simple.

Marvin was great.

He could definitely have beaten Roy.

He didn't possess Roy's mobility though.

Roy had faster hands. He had faster feet. He had faster reflexes. He was more athletic and could cover more ground.

Go and see the Griffin knockout.

The Hill knockout.

The Tate knockout.

The Paz knockout where he threw 6 shots whilst walking forward.

We're not talking about fundamentals. We're talking mobility.

Despite Marvin having great mobility, they aren't comparable.

Roy was clearly more mobile.

 

I'm more than happy for my opinion to be challenged, but don't presume that I meant something I didn't actually state.

You mean the 168 version? I'm not sure that counts in a fantasy match-up at 160.

And Hagler's jab and timing would have served as a useful counter to that.

 

Man_Machine,

Okay.

Then please clarify what you meant.

You said that not even in an alternate universe would Roy have been able to have beaten Marvin.

That reads to me that you wouldn't have given Roy a chance to have beaten him.

Roy fought Thomas Tate in 1994, which was earlier on in the same year that he fought Toney.

Most people can't really remember exactly when he fought Tate and they dismiss him being in his prime at MW as his resume was shallow. So the Toney fight is highlighted to point out to people that Roy did fight in his prime at MW. He was 25 years old at the time.

The version who fought Tate is the prime version of Roy Jones.

That's the version of him that should be used in any fantasy fight at MW.

The version who fought Hopkins was injured.

It would have been very intriguing for sure.

A great match up.

 

It is a fair comment i agree

 

I wasn't talking about fundamentals. I was referring to Marvin's ability to move - the very definition of mobility.


mobile
Pronunciation /ˈmōbəl/ /ˈmoʊbəl/ /ˈmōˌbīl/ /ˈmoʊˌbaɪl/

adjective

1. Able to move or be moved freely or easily.


Given I was responding to this: "

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", I am not really referring to speed, when I suggest that Hagler was at least as mobile as Jones Jr.

"Hand speed" and "Reflexes" obviously go to Jones. But, "Athleticism" isn't just about mobility is it? This incorporates aspects such as strength and stamina, does it not?

I personally think Hagler's footwork, as an aspect, which formed the platform for his overall capabilities, was exceptional and at least equal to Jones Jr's.

I can see why, by your definition of mobility, you'd think so.