Marvin Hagler vs Roy Jones, Jr @ 160

Mobility incorporates everything I noted, not just footwork.

Yes, Marvin had exceptional footwork.

 

I've already answered this. Anything is possible.

But, me thinking that a Hagler win is highly likely (meaning I would expect this to be the result, to the extent that I would bet big on Hagler) - is not the same as absolutely ruling out the possibility of Jones Jr. winning.

Bear in mind, I was also responding to a humorous/non-serious comment from another poster and the context of my post was in the same vein. I do consider stern reactions to such things as being needlessly oversensitive.

It is a great match-up. However, I am not too sure the version of Jones at Middleweight ('93-'94) matters greatly. There was only a year between the Hopkins and Tate matches and, to be fair, the Tate TKO didn't leave a lot to be analyzed, really.

RJJ was about speed/reflexes - and he took risks, because he could - and, he looked good in doing so against, in the main, excessively overmatched opposition. So, in very simplistic terms, if one believes Hagler could have overcome RJJ's speed then, in my opinion, one has to believe Hagler wins.

 

I'm not going to keep going over the same points.

Yes, there was only a year between Tate and Hopkins. But when Roy gets mentioned in any fantasy fights at MW, most people either use the Hopkins fight as a measuring stick or say that he was only in his prime at SMW.

Roy looked great against very good-great fighters, not just overmatched ones.

Sure, if you believe he could have overcome Roy's speed and style, he could have won. And you're obviously entitled to that opinion. But I don't think he would have done. I think he'd have been hesitant.

We'll have to agree to disagree as otherwise it will just become tiresome.

We'll change the subject.

How do you think Mike McCallum would have fared against Marvin?

 

I think you argued at one point green Hopkins is better than Hearns ta 160.I am ont sure I agree

 

I never said that.

Maybe you're confusing my posts to one of Mendoza's, where he said that Hopkins and Toney were better than any natural MW who Marvin beat.

 

well maybe

 

There's no real basis to think this of Hagler, in a match against RJJ. It comes across as a tad aspirational; more than a well thought out speculation, drawn from consistent observations.

I've always thought Hagler would be too much for McCallum, over the course. I see the latter finding himself on the defensive from the outset; clever enough to fire back in short bursts, but not enough to overcome for the win. Hagler takes a comfortable UD.

 

Id agree on the hand and foot speed point. But Marvin had timing...and that timing allied with his exceptional reflexes killed speed many a time.eg hearns

Roys speed was with short hooks and uppercuts...he didnt have the same long range speed or much of a jab....tommy hearns had long range speed and a jab but not the same short hooks and uppercut speed that roy and sugar ray leonard had.....ironically that lack of "inside speed" showed when tommy was smothered by marvin and barkley....but marvin hagler was very comfortable with that inside speed ray possesses and to a large part even a imo faded slowed hagler defended it well against srl in 1987 which i scored a draw,and he beat duran on the inside in 1983 most of durans success was on outside...its my opinion he would neutralise roys speed and than roys chin would be exposed.

 

Prime for prime - Marvin. Too relentless, strong, skilled and tough.

Used to think Roy had this but gradually realised I was thinking about the Hagler at the tail end of his career, the Hagler that ironically is best known to boxing fans from the Leonard, Mugabi and Hearns fights, no Marvin's prime was the early 80's when he first won the lineal title and demolished good fighters like Minter, Antuofermo, Sibson and Roldan to name a few.
He was a relentless destroyer in those days, Roy was a dangerous man at 160, unparalleled reflexes and speed but could he handle being stalked and hunted by an iron chinned, hard hitting terminator every second of every round ?? For me no. Not dismissing Roy here and he could conceivably just manage to steal enough rounds with his speed and quick flurries for a points win but the relentless pressure, workrate and power of Hagler would prove the deciding factors en route to a TKO or decision.

 

I don't think the Jones Jr. version of Hopkins would fare too well against Hagler.

 

Man_Machine,

Why?

Marvin didn't fight everyone in the same way, using the same strategy.

He fought them dependant upon their styles and his knowledge of them.

He was hesitant against the likes of Duran and Leonard.

He wasn't against Tommy.

He fought Tommy hard because he knew that he was very vulnerable. He'd known him for a long time. He'd seen seen him outbox Ray, before Ray changed tactics and went toe to toe with him to knock him out. Although Marvin was a warrior and he could box and fight, he was very intelligent. He wasn't going to try and outbox Tommy when he'd seen him outbox Leonard and Benitez etc. He said in the build up to their fight that Tommy had a weakness. He said that he didn't have the best chin and that he knew that he could take him out if he got inside.

The Duran fight played out completely different, even though Marvin had height and reach advantages, and he was bigger, stronger and more powerful at the weight. Marvin didn't fight him, he boxed him. And at times, he showed him too much respect.

The Leonard fight also played out differently to most of his other fights. And before you even think it, I know that Marvin was faded against Ray. But Ray was too, and he was a former WW who'd been inactive for 3 years. And he was also a guy who Marvin hated. Marvin felt underappreciated all throughout his career and he hated Ray for his golden boy persona and for the fact that he stalled their fight for a long time. He had a lot of anger towards Ray. Yet he showed no aggression towards Ray and he tried to box him instead of fighting him. And as we know, he started the fight as an orthodox fighter and gave away the early rounds. The reason that he was hesitant against Ray, was because he respected his speed and movement.

If he'd have faced Roy, he'd have been fighting a lightening fast fighter with a style that he'd never have seen before. Because nobody ever fought like Roy did. So unless he'd have had zero respect for Roy's abilities, I don't see how Roy's speed and unorthodox style wouldn't have made him hesitant.

It's ignorant to assume that Marvin wouldn't have respected him.

A prime version of Roy weighing 170 pounds was a huge ask for any MW in the history of the sport.

I can definitely envisage Marvin beating him, but I think it would be quite close.

 

Jamal Perkins,

Marvin had great timing. But Roy wasn't just fast, he was completely unorthadox.

Roy did have long range speed, as he used lots of lead shots due to his great footwork and athleticism. He could cover ground very quickly.

Tommy was extremely fast with his jab, but Marvin took it away because he rushed him and turned the bout into a fight instead of a boxing match.

I think that Marvin would have had huge issues in trying to neutralise Roy's speed.

 

I respect your opinion, but we have to ask the question:

Would Marvin have stalked Roy like the Terminator for every second of every round?

He didn't do that in 1983 when he was still in his prime against Duran, despite the fact that he held many advantages over him.

He didn't do it against Ray despite his anger and frustration towards him.

He respected their technical abilities and their speed and movement.

No MW had Roy's speed, power and unorthadox style.

I really can't see Marvin with a decision win.

Roy would have caused him huge issues.

 

I recall the Watts fight being controversial but not the Worm's victory.

 

Hagler was a very smooth boxer especially when he was younger. Could switch effortlessly and was always in shape.
Hagler could box and alot of people overlook that.
Close fight and I cant really decide.