Marvin Hagler vs Roy Jones, Jr @ 160

Holy****!! How emotional are you?

Whining, because you can’t stand being told when you’re in the wrong?

That’s not me deflecting, by the way - that’s just me telling you outright: You are posting ****.


Actual deflection is you having to appeal to the silent minority to convince yourself that you’re all good.

I don’t have to re-read the thread to know what I wrote; what I meant, when I wrote it and the pointless responses you came back at me with.


Why don’t you actually put a case together for Jones Jr., rather than constantly attacking ‘how’ the viewpoints on the other side of the debate, made by others, are being conveyed?


I have at least attempted to put some kind of a brief narrative together, as to how I think the fight would actually go; the one post you have somehow not been bothered to reply to.


Sorry but your blanket statements, e.g. “It doesn't matter if Marvin had better fundamentals”, whilst waxing lyrical about Jones Jr’s record and erroneously claiming he went “15 years undefeated”; that he’d have been a 170lb middleweight…*rinse and repeat*… is hardly a case to end all arguments, is it?

Oh, but 'Jones Jr’s speed would have caused Hagler problems' - Really? No ****? I’m so glad I had you here to pass on this insight.

Oh, but 'Hagler’s respect for Jones Jr. would make him hesitant.' - Please!!! And, you think I’m the one with objectivity issues???


If this discussion has exhausted you, I’d suggest that you waste less energy on taking condescending potshots at anyone, who thinks Hagler would beat RJJ; accusing people, who hold a different point of view to you, of being both biased and ignorant (even to the extent of quite literally making things up that I'm supposed to have assumed, to somehow underpin your BS critique); all the while, you showing your own extreme bias.


That’s some kind of hypocrisy and projection thing you’ve got going on there, chap!

Needless to say, I don't expect a response to this post from you and that's the way I'd prefer it, to be honest.


Have a good weekend, yourself.




PS - You don’t know the difference in meanings between speed; mobility and athleticism. Before you go pontificating on subjects that you’re obviously not clear about, I suggest you start with the basics.

 

You won't see me dispute that

But, if we're talking a prime-for-prime, H2H, I'm not going to hold Hagler's loss to Monroe against him.

 

Jones would easily outbox Hagler and potentially could stop him if he turns up the pace. People don't realise how good Jones was in his prime, he's on a complete different level to Hagler in terms of power, speed and defence. If a past prime front running welterweight Ray Leonard is beating you 7-5, you aren't catching up to RJJ.

Also RJJ was rarely the bigger man. But here he's 170lb in the ring and 2 inches taller. Also Hagler liked to box and counter punch. Terrible match up for him.

 

Oh my.

Ha!

Rinse and repeat.

I'm not emotional, just tired of your biased, drawn out, argumentative posting style.

Just reading the above drivel makes me so tired.

Whining?

No.

Attacking viewpoints?

No.

Just pointing out your biased views which are there for all to see.

You know what you've written.

I don't know how you have got the audacity to write the above BS.

You don't like the word hesitant? Oh dear. I'm sorry. We'll use the word cautious then, which means the exact same thing.

How foolish of me to put forward the notion that Marvin may have been cautious against one of the fastest MW's of all time.

Oh, it's me who didn't understand your context again? Right. Thanks for clearing that up.

Pontificating on subjects I'm not clear on? Ha! Do me a favour.

I'm biased?

Me?

This is me:

"Marvin could definitely have beaten Roy"

This is you:

"Not even in an alternative universe would Roy have beaten Marvin"

"Roy was a myth"

"He fought the RUINS of Toney"

"Most of what else he did was ORDINARY"

"Roy was only a man..."

Seriously, go and reread your posts.

If you can't see that you've been hyping Marvin into an unbeatable monster whilst you've been telling other forum members to stop hyping Roy because he was only a man, then you are absolutely deluded.

I've tried to debate you, but all I get is long winded nonsense, such as:

"I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing..."

You debate in a way that a lawyer would do.

Answer me this, genius:

How can any of us even try to debate with you on this subject, if you think that most of what Roy did besides Hopkins and Toney, was ordinary?

What planet are you on?

There was nothing ordinary about what Roy did. Nothing.

If you can't see how you've exaggerated and been biased there, there's no hope of anyone holding an objective debate with you.

No, I haven't given you an exact breakdown. I was planning to, but after reading more of your nonsense, I've lost all my desire to do so. Because I have no wish to even read another one of your biased, argumentative and exhausting posts.

The fact that you don't even realise you've been biased speaks volumes.

We'll leave it there.

If you want the last word, go ahead.

I haven't got it in me to even reply back to you.

I'll be happy to just sit back and read the views of the other members.

Cheers.

 

B-Hop never fought the type of quality as middleweight that was around in Hagler's era - B-Hop would not be able to sustain the southpaw pressure that Marvin was able to give- I think he stops or dominates Bernard

 

The idea that somebody easily outboxes Hagler (a TOP 5 ATG middleweight) seems far -stretched to say the least. Roy really peaked at 168. It was a weight where he was more comfortable.

 

I'd really be quite interested to read your breakdown on what it was exactly that put RJJ's defense on another level to that of Hagler's.

 

I put a few questions for you to answer. You should take back the myth statement on Roy Jones.

 

If he truly wants an objective debate, he should take back a number of statements.

I'm still awaiting his response to your posts.

 

Roy Jones was no myth. He was a true ATG with freakish athleticsm and good skills. He also has a real chance due to his stylistic edge. My only qualm with picking him is that he was quite fragile and Hagler would catch him. I think Marv stops him when he does.

 

I haven't seen such a pasting since Calzaghe beat Lacy.

 

It would be if Jones hadn't dominated 2 ATG middleweights in Hopkins and Toney that were on par with Hagler. Jones Jr defended his MW title against Tate who went the distance with Jackson, the fight before Toney and did this to him:

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Reaction speed. No one could hit him in his prime. Hagler was hit far more often.

 

Fragile at the age of 35 upwards with shot reflexes and stamina against a huge LHW puncher in Tarver after 12 years as a champion. Fighters who have been knocked out suffer brain trauma, that makes them more likely to be knocked out again.

Jones looked past it in Tarver 1 and was shot after the Tarver 2 KO.

 

Ok? Shot or not, no-one durable gets iced for 8 minutes by Glen Johnson.

 

Good wins but Toney was not at his best and Hopkins still a bit green.By the way I would pick Hagler over Toney and Hopkins at 160.