Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Robinson

I believe he was down in 2 and 3 but I have never heard anything about his first match with LaMotta other than he clearly outboxed Jake.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_LaMotta

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/arti..._lamotta_made_history_in_detroit#.WHYkjMtOnqA

http://www.theboxingmagazine.com/the-legendary-bronx-bull-jake-lamotta/

These sites all mention the 1st round knockdown. Curiously though Boxrec does not, nor is it mentioned in Schoor's 1951 book on Robinson, the 1970 SRR biography by Anderson, or Lamotta's 1970 book Raging Bull. Does anybody know more about this?

 

Robinson had over 100 fights on a steady schedule before his 2nd loss, a prime SRR walks through all of Haglers opponents. SRR era much deeper guys like Sibson & Mugabi would not have made the top 10...Hagler no walk over but SRR beats him every time...the ancient version we are not speaking of...prime vs prime

 

Marvin is my 2nd favorite of all time, but I have to go with Ray-another fighter I love and respect- by decision as he was too dynamic for the Marvelous One.

 

I hold Robinson as definitely the greatest at welterweight and although Robinson wasn't obviously at his best in middle he would still be one of hagglers toughest fights or the toughest (neither of theme are getting knocked out remember ray fought artie Levine who hit a lot harder than haggler and haggler fought mugabi who hit a lot harder than ray so their chins and will would definitely keep theme up for the whole fight). say there in a 2 fight series; first fight I take Marvin by points win he would out work ray and punch from angles Robinson didn't no about bulling ray around the ring an holding control for nearly the whole fight. second fight ray goes and does his homework and finds something in haggler style he can take advantage, or he finds a different strategy in fighting haggler, outworking him pulling of fast counterpunches and using his brilliant footwork to full advantage moving from side to side forwards an backwards throwing jabs and right uppercuts as he back away and pulling of lightning right hand counter shots, ray sometimes close distance gets inside and throws a rapid uppercuts to the gut of Marvin then dances away and continues his game plan of jabs, counter rights and uppercuts, this second fight is clearer and Robinson walks away with UD.

 

Hagler via late TKO or close UD/SD

 

I agree, all of Robinsons losts came at MW with the exception of his lone LHW bout. I was curious as to who your top five were. Let me know if I'm close from what you had...in no particular order. Greb, Monzon, Hagler, B-hop and Walker.

 

What exactly did Lamotta have or do better than Hagler. They both had granite chins, remarkable stamina and were strong, but Hagler had more power was a switch hitter and in my opinion more skilled

 

Unpopular opinion but i go with Hagler

 

I always felt that Ray Robinson was at his best as a welterweight. By the time he won the middleweight title from LaMotta he was almost thirty years of age and near the end of his peak years. While he had amazing longevity as a fighter, not finally retiring until 1965, his reign as middleweight titleholder was not so consistent. In his first defense he lost the title to Randy Turpin, then regained it. He had a successful defense against former king Rocky Graziano, getting off the deck to KO Rocky in the next round. Then the challenge to Joey Maxim for the LH title and his subsequent retirement until 1955. After he came back in 1955, he lost to Tiger Jones, then a see-saw of winning, losing, and regaining the title in bouts with Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer, and Carmen Basilio before finally losing it to Paul Pender in 1960. He fought on against top contenders and future champions over the next five years but after his comeback in 1955 he was past his best and more vulnerable.

Hagler won the title in 1980 and held the undisputed title for the next seven years. He was 26 when he won the title, so he held the title during his prime and peak years. He was pretty much seen as invincible during his reign. I would have to say that of the two, Hagler had the better reign as he was more dominant during its duration. Ray won the middleweight title five times, but on the flip side, that requires losing it a number of times.

So who wins? I believe the best Robinson at middleweight would be at the time he won the title from Jake. I believe this Robinson would have outpointed the Hagler who drew with Antuofermo in his first try at the title in 1979. By the time Hagler got another title shot, the title had passed from Vito to Alan Minter and their rematch. Hagler now had a real chip on his shoulder and made short work of both Minter and Antuofermo thereafter. This Hagler and probably any version up to the Duran fight would be a tough match for the Robinson of the early 50s. Both SRR and MMH were very skillful boxers and punchers and very durable, so I believe any fight between the two would go the limit. Perhaps SRR had a more versatile repertoire of weapons, so I lean toward the SRR of the LaMotta fight over Hagler. But at the same time, I would pick Hagler over any version of Robinson from the Turpin fight onward. Tough fights to be sure, but as a middleweight Hagler has the more consistent record.