Marvin Hagler (vs the Light Heavy's)

If Hagler didnt think he would win i wont argue.

 

He could have outboxed a few of them, but he never even had one test. Something which I think should affect his legacy. Hearns moved up and fought Dennis Andries and Virgil Hill and Kemper Morton etc etc.

 

I am sorry, but while this is a common line of thought, i think it is probably one of the most ridiculous lines of thought. It is true that Hagler never went up in weight, but so what if he had no tests.

Look back at history, and show me a world Middleweight champion who couldnt compete at light heavyweight level and found the weight too much. Their simply are not any. It isnt like the jump from Light heavy to heavy (though even that is a little overstated. I cant look at everyone but since most if not all rate Hagler as the top 5 middleweight champions, and plenty have him as one, looking at the most of the good ones should tell us.

Starting at the top,
Bob Fitzsimmons - Obviously no troubles,
Tommy Ryan - A natural Welterweight, didnt fight any light heavys until he was past it and ready to retire, but did face O brien, Root, and even Denver Ed Martin. None of them knocked him out and as an old man he was cometive with these light heavys. No problems there for the former welter and middle champion.
Stanley Ketchell - He was outclassed (though he did knock him down) by Jack Johnson but he held his own with Langford and Had no problems with Heavyweight contender Dan Flynn. No real issues there.
Freddie Steel - Knocked out Gus Lesnevich. Not overly tested but no real problems shown.
Tiger Flowers - Beat a string of light heavys and heavys among others Rosenbloom and Young bob Fitzsimmons are just two examples, there are plenty there.
Mickey Walker - No Explanation needed. He did admittedly lose to Loughran but Loughran himself was an ATG.
Ray Robinson - Okay, he only had one fight and he lost. But he was well ahead on the cards apparently and what is most often forgotten, Joey Maxim is an all time great with an all time great chin. He needed to be.
Dick Tiger - No trouble going up in weight until running into all time great light heavy Bob Foster.
Ray Leonard - Okay it was a bit of a dodge Light heavy title but he did win it without too much trouble.
Tommy Hearns - This former Tommy Hearns won a light heavy title when old and passed it. No problems there, even though his chin was probably a little more debateable than Marvins and arguably he didnt even have the power of Marvin.
Roy Jones Jr - No problems going up in weight there.
James Toney - Again, he seemed to handle the light heavyweight jump with ease.
Bernard Hopkins - Okay he technically lost to Dawson and Calzaghe but he also lost at middleweight to. He handled the jump fine.

Hagler is an all time great. As shown above, there are plenty of good middleweight champions that went up and were successful at the higher weight. WHo were those that went up and couldnt handle the light heavy limit? When Hagler was champion he had Michael Spinks and Larry Holmes above him for most of the time. Both are arguably comparable with Hagler on a pound for pound basis, not allowing for size. If he went up, he woud have been competive. In fact Spinks is a toss up fight, but there would be no shame in losing because those guys are all time greats. Now if we find him a light heavyweight who is not an all time great, well Hagler is going to be a strong favourite. It takes an all time great to beat an all time great (90% of the time). I think Spinks beats Hagler, thinks being the main word. Many of the average light heavy weight champions who are being matched against Hagler here, simply will not be good enough. Dont get me wrong there will be some good close fights (as there was between Hagler and some good middleweight contenders) but they will all be outclassed and it will take an upset to win.

 

I would have loved to have seen Hagler move up to face Michael Spinks.

BTW, BHop never fought Dawson.

 

ex-lightweight Roberto Duran fought Hagler close.

The big Lightheavies would beat Hagler.

Hagler might outpoint the run and box lightheavies...if they let it happen.

 

The truth is that he wouldnt stand as much of a chance as some gave him IMO. Look at how tellingly competitive he was with the best of the smaller guys. I think he might have matched up well with a couple LHW's, but not the best.

 

Hagler's best opponents were men who rose in weight, and they generally either beat him or made him look unimpressive... Therefore, his chances at light heavyweight are not very attractive...

 

The only guy who beat him was Leonard and that's debatable. Please STFU.

 

Hagler wouldn't have had problems with the post-Spinks era light heavyweights. Difficult to say how he would have done in the late 70's and early 80's though, as he wasn't a big middleweight by any means. A Dennis Andries and Bobby Czyz he could always beat.

 

vs. Victor Galindez-Hagler by decision(Galindez is the same height as Hagler and though he beat Eddie Muhammad, Hagler is not the mental midget Muhammad is and is not the bad defensive fighter Sadd Muhammad was).
vs. Miguel Cuello-Hagler by KO 10th round(He never beat anybody and was another guy who was Hagler's height and didn't posess great physical gift's)
vs. John Conteh-Conteh by decision (Conteh really only beat Yaqui Lopez but here's a guy with great physical gift's, is taller and has the style to beat Hagler. I could see Hagler winning but I think Conteh would beat him)
vs. Mate Parlov-Hagler by decision(Parlov was a good tough tall fighter and he was big and fast, but he didn't possess a big punch and though he had the reach, you have to remember Hagler usually beat up taller fighter's who couldn't hurt him)
vs. Marvin Johnson-Hagler by TKO 12th round(Johnson was a good fighter, but he loved to brawl. Hagler was not Saad Muhammad, he would outbox the slower Johnson from the outside and than stop him late)
vs. Matthew Saad Muhammad-Hagler by decision(Muhammad was a big puncher, but Hagler had a iron chin and imo Muhammad would only have a puncher's chance in this fight. Hagler is much faster and would outbox Muhammad)
vs. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad-Muhammad by decision(Muhammad has to many physical attributes for Hagler, he was very naturally talented and even though he didn't put in the work, I think he would be too much for Hagler)
vs. Mike Rossman-Hagler by Retire 9th round, Rossman was a quitter)

And for the Record Spinks and Quawi beat Hagler by decision. Spinks would just be too awkward and Quawi would use his superior strenghth against Hagler.

 

Both Muhammads are the only guys I think could beat Hagler. And even then it's 50/50. Even at the heavier class, no one would have the power to keep Marvin off of them. The pressure and his footwork would always keep these guys on the run or fighting from the ropes or a corner. Spinks would be the model of someone that could win- since we know Marvin would only lose by decision. The prototype to beat Hagler would need defense, footwork and a world-class jab. That's why a SRL and a Spinks-type are the only ones I could see Marvin losing to.

 

Hagler settled right into MW and stayed there.

He had his reasons.