Marvin Hagler's legacy?

There are some contradictions in your views. On one hand, you claim that Hagler shouldn't be rated very high on the basis of what you call weak competition. On the other hand, you think Leonard should be rated higher, depite having far fewer bouts over ranked fighters at that division.

 

I think P4P All Time Marvin is overated legacy wise. After all hes rated top10 or top20 by many. Did he ever beat a Great Middleweight? I would say no he didn't. Lets depict his resume:

Minter - weak champ imo, a good fighter I don't know if hes a top2 British middleweight of the past 30 years aside from anything else.

Antuofermo - good but again a top middleweight should beat him

Duran - hard to assess this 1. Durans an ATG but a natural lightweight and past his prime. Duran never had very good power/strength/size above lightweight. Heralded at MW for win over journeyman Barkley and lost to 3 fighters (or was it 4?) at 154.

Hearns - ATG but not an ATG at MW, Hearns is a funny case with his massive size/speed advantages at 147-154. His chin and durability above 154 just was not good enough.

Mugabi - unproven and never amounted to much

Leonard - Hagler had the size advantage, both past their prime, if Haglers is P4P top20 of all time shouldnt he have beaten the naturally smaller Leonard? Very poorly executed gameplan by Hagler and possibly showed his limitations

So is Marvin top20 P4P of all time? Probably not IMO

 

Doin' a good job, keep it up :good

 

I used to rank Leonard above Hagler at MW. I'll backtrack on that. But Duran and Hearns are 2 of Haglers best 4 wins. And Leonard beat them and Hagler so maybe Leonard is an underrated MW

If Tunney can make top10 in some peoples HW lists (not mine) why is Leonard not making top10 in more MW lists?

 

Hagler's legacy is that he is one of the icons of the last great decade of boxing, the 1980's.

He was IMO a better fighter in the late 70s, he met and beat better oppostion. He did all he could as Champion and cleaned the division up. But like an Ali had the advantage of fighting in the strongest era at Heavyweights, others had that advantage over the Marvelous one at Middleweight.

As a Middleweight I rate Marvin at #7, but his rating as an all time Pound for pound fighter is improved as these ratings should (and do) factor in other intangables (such as iconic status) over the ratings of a single division, thus Hagler is rated very highly IMO (#30).

 

There have been 40 lineal middleweight champs, IMO both minter and antuofermo are in the top 25.

Antuofermo has wins over corro, brisoce, griffith, dagge, denny moyer and eugene hart. It would be stupid not to consider him a very good or great middleweight. I mean who did nino benvenuti or rodrigo valdez really beat, that gives monzon so much credit?

Alot of the middleweight champs from the past are only famous becuase they either fought sugar ray robinson or beat him them and lost back to him immediately.

 

hagler was a beast and he beat most everybody you put in front of him

great fighter, very exciting to watch
**** legacies, boxing is boxing

 

Every Middleweight has his flaws.

Dick Tiger: way too inconsistent and was outboxed very easily by griffith. At least the leonard/hagler fight was a split decision.

Gene Fullmer: Which natural middleweight did he beat, all his wins seem to be against smaller men.

Stanley Ketchel: Besides papke and philly jack o brien( a man that looks so crude on film) most of his other opponents are relatively unknown.

Giardello: Too inconsistent, never gave benton a title shot.

Nino Benvenuti: Only beat smaller men

Rodrigo Valdez: Besides briscoe, who did he beat:

Graziano, Turpin, Olson: All famous for being ray robinson opponents, the fact that they got kod by a blown up welterweight shows they really arent Great Middleweights.

Marcel Cerdan: Padded his record like crazy, beating 5 contenders at most.

Tony Zale: Never defended his belt against burley or holman williams.

 

so true

 

Than what are Greb, Walker, Fitz, Ryan famous for?? I think your over rated this Ray Robinson fame thing.

 

There is no way you can rank ryan and fitzsimmons above hagler based on middleweight accomplishments.

Greb and Monzon should be the only middleweights ranked above hagler. I mean what did fitsimmons really do, win 3 belts during a time black people couldnt fight for the titles. He beat jack nonpariel, i ask you, who did he really beat? He beat corbett, i dont recall corbett being considered as an ATG heavyweight, unless ur nate fleshcer.

 

Corbett did fight a 61 draw with Peter Jackson. So that has to count for something. For Corbett. Corbett was great imo.

Same for Fitz.