Mastering a certain style of boxing- let's break down the technical factors

MagnaNasakki, you're a fountain of knowledge. What's your background in boxing and such? You seem to really know your shite. I'm considering really doing my research and doing a piece on Jersey Joe Walcott in the foreseeable future.

 

To kill two birds with one stone I've just been rewatching all the available youtube footage of McFarland vs Welsh and they have their respective, contrasting styles knuckled down to an absolute tee. McFarland I'd call the classic

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because that's exactly what he is to me, and as fine a one I've ever seen at that. Welsh is a bit harder to put a name on so I'll have to settle for something like

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or

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. Both sound awful as **** but I can't think of much else for too long without losing focus in my left eye and making a gurgling sound. Anyways.......

McFarland reminds me of Benny Leonard or a smaller, slightly better Tunney. Maybe even a more effectively aggressive but fractionally less defensively apt Driscoll. His punches, particularly the mid/long straight right and inside uppercut (thrown from that perfectly balanced, straight-spined stance), are wonderfully typical of the era as is his hand positioning. So well-timed and executed with bigtime power and accuracy. His footwork is equally good going in any direction and it needs to be because so is Welsh's. It's one of the several fascinating duels going on between the various competing facets of their respective armouries, whether Welsh is trying to typically shimmy and weasel his way inside with McFarland trying to carefully (but not negatively) gauge/maintain control of the distance so as to be first to the punch, or whether McFarland is stalking Welsh around the periphery as the latter cleverly changes tack and moves/speeds laterally as he often did to try and make McFarland lunge and overextend.

Welsh's left hand is one the best and craftiest I've seen at the lower weights both as a defensive and offensive tool, though not as powerful as McFarland's. His jab is fast and varied and especially excellent as throws it over the top from that slight crouch trying to counter McFarland's reach advantage without taking a right over the top or an uppercut underneath, smartly turning his shoulder and keeping his chin down with his right hand cocked and ready (he even outjabbed Driscoll at times with this tactic). He succeeds, but so does McFarland (arguably moreso a fair deal of the time). When the fight goes to the inside, both of them are supremely adept at what they do: McFarland using his feet and balance to try and shunt himself backwards and sideways into some punching space for both hands to head and body while Welsh falls forward (or even using his own strength to try and drive Welsh back). Conversely, Welsh tries to bore his head in from the crouch, stepping under and across McFarland to deny him leverage and smartly - if dirtily - work his own openings to head and body in volume in such a way that he doesn't swallow much punishment himself. Welsh wasn't a puncher but he was physically strong and this was often the best way to impose himself, especially against a man like McFarland who was so used to dictating the terms. This is another thing about Welsh that I like here; McFarland is his technical equal and physical superior whilst clearly being with greater one punch power that Welsh has to master every tool in the technician's toolbox knowing that he isn't going to knock McFarland out or even wear him down. The only edge he has is probably in speed and even that isn't a big edge, but he works it to the fullest, hand and foot. His right hand carries nowhere near the force, straightness and torque that McFarland's does but is still effective, especially if can work it from the crouch around McFarland's jab and on the break from any inside skirmishes.

If McFarland wins the inside exchange then we're back to the end of paragraph two where Welsh circles and uses his quick, smooth lateral movement to try and pull McFarland in, essentially staying in range but trying to position himself so that McFarland can't typically set up those hard, straight shots in one's, two's, three's or whatever. Then if McFarland misses or fails to beat Welsh to the punch, Welsh is in a position to either flurry and get out or resume the fight on the inside. And both of them are impeccably balanced at every range with a terrific grasp of leverage and the various planes of mixed defensive and offensive movement including upper body movement, head movement and the ability to parry, slip and pick off shots accordingly and counter effectively. Welsh's turned-in left shoulder and his cradled arm set into that crouch again contrast terrifically here with McFarland's more straightbacked but equally effective approach with the natural 'radar', so to speak.

Since this is your thread teeto, I'll paraphrase something that you mentioned about Hopkins when you said that he has pretty much mastered boxing in every way on a scientific level and is the complete craftsman. Welsh, to me, is the same in that sense. His speed, strength, toughness and physical conditioning coupled with his honed knowledge of every punch, position and his grasp of tactics clean or dirty meant that his lack of power was, like Barney Ross, nearly always irrelevant. His mastery of the fundamentals and being so defensively excellent despite his aggressive nature was key to it, and McFarland was the perfect foil to this, getting the better of things over the course of their fights as Benny Leonard with his sometimes similarish style eventually did against Welsh. Driscoll came close in a way too, but his comparitive size disadvantage and subsequent anger at Welsh's more questionable output cut things short for him. That McFarland was later able to fight Mike Gibbons to a near standstill as well beating the other great fighters that he did in the way that he did qualify him as the consumate standup boxer-puncher, just as Welsh's achievements mark him down as the influential aggressive/defensive craftsman that he was.

 

That´s what I call a GREAT post ! :good
Best thread ever guys.......I would love to see something about Saddler....or my guy Jofre.....

 

How 'bout Joey Giardello, t?

 

Here we go, done one on James Toney, its probably going to be pretty critical and I don’t want people to think I’m hating on Toney, he is an amazing fighter he just has a few glaring flaws that when not evident he looks like one of the best fighters ever.

Stance:
Toney has a pretty good stance. His footwork is held equally apart at all times which is good practise (but it also gets him into trouble at times), His right hand, contrary to what Gil Clancy says about it not protecting anything, is held stuck to his chin in a very good position. His left hand is dangling low. He stays quite square on with it, but I’ll go into more detail on his stance, in defence as he has a defensive stance.

Jab:
Toney’s jab is nothing special, it is underused and doesn’t bring anything amazing to his game. It is really just a tool to close the distance with; he throws it to cover himself as he steps inside. He has what I would call a ‘one phase jab’ though, as Jones Jr exploited when he doubled up the jab he only stepped forward with the jab once, then set his feet. This allowed Jones to escape as he kept moving back. Now if you watch Fighting Harada he stays light on his feet as he jabs, and that allows him to keep moving.

Offence:
Upon studying it further, Toney’s offence did impress me somewhat in the way he was so accurate with his shots. He throws lovely combinations at times but when he looks for power he throws one shot at a time. His combinations use the momentum of his body beautifully as he turns in that uppercut he uses the hips to come back round with a left hook, it is nice stuff.
The most impressive thing though is the way he adapts his shots mid-flight. He showcases this wonderfully against Doug DeWitt, at long-range Toney occasionally chucked out a jab that fell short so as he threw the right he lengthened it slightly catching DeWitt unaware. On the other side of that jab is, as Toney closes the distance behind his jab as he steps in he shortens that right hand as he throws it so it lands on the button.
Another effective thing is his long left hook, he often starts a long left hook to get his opponent to jack that right hand back to catch it, and as they do that Toney shortens that left hook so it lands in neater, inside their right hand. Really lovely stuff.
Also the way he throws the right uppercut comes from a blind spot down the middle of his opponents guard so it’s wonderfully effective.
Again the ‘one phase’ criticism rings true in this department also.

Defence:
Now Toney has that famous ‘shoulder roll’ defence but I feel it is slightly misconstrued. People say Toney tucks that left shoulder in front of his chin and then rolls with the shot, but it’s a slight variation of that. Toney tends to offer up his chin and as his opponent attacks he leans to the right and rolls his left shoulder across his chin offering protection, against slower opposition it is perfect but as Jones Jr exploited he was able to get a straight right hand in before the shoulder came across the chin.
Another thing about his ‘shoulder roll’ is that his only escape route appears to be his right hand side, he very rarely leans to his left. He works it well though as he tends to stay towards the opponents left hand side to minimise their left hook, but as Toney’s main escape route and instinct is to lean to his right when pressured, a left hook or left uppercut is the ultimate weapon to catch him, again as Jones Jr effectively blocked his escape route time and time again with the left hand.
And as that left hand threat is there even if the opponents left hand does not land cleanly, Toney’s right hand becomes ‘tied’ up as he has to block the left with his right, and this means he can’t come back with the right hand counter that this position leaves him set up to do.
Another major weakness is the way Toney sets his lead foot and back foot, he keeps them the same distance apart so in terms of static footwork it is the perfect position if he was boxing stand still, but boxing is dynamic. So when an opponent moves outside Toney’s left foot, because both feet are set he has to re-set his footwork to get round to them. The same is true if you move towards the outside of his right foot but you’d have to pass right through the danger zones of all his punches to do so, so it is much more risky.

 

this thread is dooope

 

Brilliant stuff! As usual. Could you have a look in at my Ali/Hearns thread and give your input? It would be much appreciated.

 

Good stuff on Toney, Greg. Nicely balanced about his brilliance but also his shortcomings. The stuff I've posted about Kalambay, Driscoll, Welsh and McFarland was so quick to praise them that I forgot to really chuck in any constructive criticism like yours.

Teeto, it was Welsh who reminds me of Hopkins in principal ie. the mastery of everything at his disposal rather than an outright styles comparison, although I don't hold Hopkins quite as highly as many do, great fighter though he is. Just that I'd seen you mention something about Hopkins in other threads about no one style bothering him and that physical/athletic disadvantages were what bothered him more than anything. This is what gives McFarland the clear edge against Welsh more than any clear divide in skill level although you could still argue that McFarland was even more skillful as well. He was a massive lightweight/welterweight though, one of his problems of course when it came to getting the fights. It might have been better if someone like Surf_Bat - who knows more about him and the era in general than I do - had done a breakdown, but I'd been scanning the footage and thought I'd have a crack when I saw that the thread had been bumped again.

I might post one about Jofre later if I can bothered to work up a bit of a sweat, since Vic mentioned it. I reckon he ought to do it though instead. :tong

 

Thought I'd bump this thread, as it is great.


Antonio Esparragoza

Ezparragoza's style is many things and almost entirely unique. He has big aspects of boxing-punching and counter-punching in his style, so I'll vouch for calling him a 'backfoot Boxer-Puncher', but he really has no clearly defined style.

Offence

Ezzparagoza's offence is his most outstanding attribute. He takes advantages of combinations and sharp counters to really do damage.

Jab - His jab really is not used that much as a weapon but its a versatile tool for the Venezuelan. He uses it for three main puposes: bait, range and to keep someone off.
When using it as bait it really is a thing of beauty, he pops it out slowly looking to distract his opponent then launches in with some combinations behind it. The rang-finder is used to set up the range for his dazzling combinations and is pretty self explanatory. And when using it to keep someone off, when he wants a rest, it is good and snappy however he really underuses it.

Combinations -

Will finish later