Mastering a certain style of boxing- let's break down the technical factors

If you label Monzon as an "outside fighter", there is an abundance of technical aspects of his game that are worthy of comment and explication.

 

Agenda.

Innuendo.

keep this thread clean.

 

Would you just **** off? I HAVE NO BIAS AGAINST MONZON. Jesus, when a Monzon thread comes up and I make a comment, you ignore my points just complain that I'm biased. When a non-Monzon thread comes up and I imply that Monzon could be relevant, you complain that I'm biased. You're obviously the one with insecurities here mate.

 

Monzon (No bias.)

I will refrain from verbally kicking the **** out of you out of respect for teetos thread.

Now either post an analysis or be like a banana and split.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BtVS0-w9A[/ame]

 

I've got some stuff to sort out, but I will get on this soon, promise

 

Personally I think to be great you have to master yourself, because if you cant master and maximise yourself you arnt great, are you?

Monzon still mastered what he did, did he not?

I would argue that his style was 'Monzon', he fought the same style every fight, albeit in different tactical adjustments but his style is 'Monzon', i might break it down later but this weekend will be hectic for me so Monday.

I thought you might mention a guy who lacked textbook skills or was very adaptable. Jones is a very interesting one though, did he fully master his skillset? Or was alot of it athletic ability?

I'm undecided on Jones on this issue.

Pacquiao is a hard one as he has changed so much. Right now I would say he's a 'Power Whirlwind' as McGrain put Pacquiaos style after the Cotto fight 'A swarmer with a punch'. But before he was much more a slugger, and left hand happy at that.

 

Ok, so I'm going to go with Chavez for now. I'm going to classify him as a

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, although I think he did have other facets to his game and some text-book tools that allowed him to box more when favourable (more than, say, Frazier). I'll stick first with what I think are technical things that played into his style, rather than simply saying "Well he does this well, and that well etc."

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Chavez' guard is crucial to his game. Obviously, we know he was excellent at slipping and picking off punches, but those are really skills more than technical observations. From a technical perspective (which is what this thread is all about) there are certain things about his defence that are particularly noteworthy. If you watch Hopkins' KO of Trinidad closely, you'll see something interesting. The finishing sequence actually occurs when Hopkins misses wildly with a left uppercut from the outside (almost unheard of for him) and Trinidad tries to counter with (you guessed it) the left hook. The left hok is actually quite nicely placed, and does land on Hopkins. However, because Hopkins has his hands close to his head and his chin tucked in, it just bounces painlessly off his forehead and takes no effect (to the uneducated observer, as if the punch hadn't landed at all). This allows Hopkins to counter with a right hook ("full mustard"), and his less prepared opponent doesn't have his hands up and doesn't have his chin tucked in, leaving him open for the money shot. The difference in the way the two men defended themselves habitually was the difference between a punch glancing harmlessly off and a punch causing a KO.

Now, this is a good analogy for what Chavez accomplishes with his guard. In many of his fights against less distinguished opponents, he actually gets in exchanges where he's taking shots himself, but they have no effect at all. His guard is always kept close to his chin, leaving little or no room for the shots to do damage, and his chin is for the most part down. This means his opponents end up wearing themselves out on his guard, or end up with their shots bouncing off all over the place and leaving them wide open for counters. You could hit Chavez in the temple as much as you want; he allows you to and it doesn't hurt. But when he hits you back, your chin is exposed and he's going to be doing the damage, even if his connect rate isn't the same.

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Basically, Chavez had a wicked right hand. Partially, he used it so much just because it was a really great punch - so great that he could easily out-time bigger and longer opponents' jabs with a lead right hand from the outside. The technical advantage with the blow is that a right hand involves turning your whole body forward with it and following through, meaning your momentum naturally carries you forward as you let it go. For Chavez, this was a natural mechanism for him to get inside seamlessly after throwing a shot. He doesn't have to crudely step in or try to bull his way inside with head movement; he just throws the right hand and his body naturally slides up close where he is at home. This isn't achieved by a jab, which if anything leaves you even more emphatically on the outside than you were before, especially if you "step in" with the lead foot while throwing it, preventing your body squaring up for you to come in. Plus, the right is a stronger, more damaging blow in the exchange.

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There's a strong divide in pressure fighters, the way I see it. Obviously, all pressure fighters are trying to pressure. But there are different styles at work. There are Frazier types, who are constantly marching forward. They literally never stop unless you beat the brakes off them. They don't wait to get off, but just keep charging in until they get to the right distance to let go. Then there are Chavez/Holyfield types, who are looking to pressure you, but aren't always moving forward. They often wait just outside of range, waiting for an opportunity to counter their way in, or lead with something that will allow them to follow up by going inside. Now, adopting the style of the second category carries the advantage of being able to constantly maintain balance, something which Chavez was pretty good at. He wasn't anywhere near Napoles or anything, but he was always in position to throw the right hand or the left hook to the body, and always had his feet well planted so he could afford to take a shot without getting thrown around all over the place. If you're exchanging with someone regularly, as pressure fighters must, having the ability to attack or defend at all times is essential, especially for in-fighters, and that's what the above achieves.

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This sort of straddles the divide between a skill and a technical factor, but I think is still worth mentioning. Chavez was arguably the most accurate puncher of all time, especially in combination, similar to other offensive greats like Robinson and Louis. This obviously makes it easier to score points and do damage, but also has the advantage in terms of pressure of not giving your opponent opportunities to counter. More interesting, though, is the way Chavez throws his punches. For instance, he could throw perhaps the shortest left hook I've seen any fighter throw. It's a sneaky punch that he doesn't need any leverage to get off, and because it's so short, he doesn't have to step back to get room to punch. Consequently, his opponent doesn't realise it's coming, and hasn't got the space to get Chavez back anyway, as Chavez can throw it and quickly get back on his opponent's chest. (Foreman mastered this sneaky hook technique later in his career - see the Cooney KO.) All of Chavez punches, not just the hook, were thrown in a super-efficient, compact, tight way, so he never left himself open unnecessarily for counters and could keep the pressure up without fear of retaliation. Further, he could rattle off attacks to the head and body with tihs crisp, accurate punching style, giving you no respite until you caved in.

I went to stick this video in as evidence of Chavez' guard originally, and when I found it I realised it makes a lot of what I typed redundant. Oh well. It serves as a nice summary as well as helping to illustrate the above points.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMcXR3uriaY[/ame]

 

Calm down. Calm down.

I misread the thread, to be completly honest, i thought it was completly on mastering a style that go with it. I did'nt mean to say that Monzon mastered himself in that context, I mean he made the most of his style, he maximised the effectiveness he could produce, without creating from ting from technical practise. Someone like Mayorga has glaring flaws because of his deviance from technical practise.

I actually didnt know how to take your post there, serious or joking?