Mastering a certain style of boxing- let's break down the technical factors

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by teeto, Jun 17, 2010.


  1. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'll do one tomorrow. Does Harada fit the bill?
     
  2. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Harada would be great, you've said it now so you've got to do it:D

    He's a versatile fighter so it just really depends on how you perceive him i think.
     
  3. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    James Toney- the counterpuncher

    One thing must be explained before this description is submitted. I'm offerring Toney as a master counterpuncher on the basis that great footwork is not a prerequisite of a great counterpuncher (from a technical standpoint, as always). However, if the forum disagrees on that point then i'm willing to void this post, because to be honest i'm not quite sure.

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    Straight to the point, without breaking down defense into separate areas i'll say with confidence that Toney posessed one of the greatest defenses his divisions ever saw, including middleweight. I do think that Hopkins had a better defense, on the strength that Toney is great at defending shots, but Hopkins was great at not letting his man be in position to land, along with being great at covering up in addition to that. That's also a generalship issue though, which i'm not considering here for reasons afforementioned. In terms of pure defense, Toney was a master. The stance made himself minimal as a target, and could vary in a way akin to a boxing chameleon. His chin was always tucked in, he would stand in front of his man and make himself unavailable whilst the opponent seemed wide open. Truly a great defense. Head movement was key also, his eyes fixated on those who attempted to land clean on him, Toney would play peek-aboo, rolling his shoulder before landing his counters.

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    Probably a form of generalship, one might actually call it inverted ring generalship. Rather than 'using' the ring, Toney's chosen strategy would be to wait for his man, always tucked into his own defense, with supreme confidence of coming out on top of the inevitable exchange. If the opponent was unwilling to lead, Toney would feint with the left, use the jab, shimmy somewhat, all in order to make his man play his game. When that game ensued, his pivoting of his upper body, his head movement, guarded torso, and impressive arsenal would combine to do the scoring, and much of the time inflict damage.

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    His accuracy formed the cornerstone of his success, which was realised through good punching form, technically. The straight that Prince Charles Williams ate whole for instance, was a perfect counter right hand to no end (on that occasion even his footwork excelled in that move).

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    Not simply head-hunting when on defense, Toney knew how to attack the body. He could wail away with both hands to the body, on the counter. It seemed he was astute at mid-range when manipulating his opponent's positioning so he could land power-shots to the head (like with McCallum), but was comfortable attacking the body as well (as the past prime Holyfield found out).

    Simply what i'm saying is that from the waist up, he was one of the best technicians of all time.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgA0YVoZADw&feature=related[/ame]
     
  4. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Nice, teeto, good analysis of the Burger King himself! I'm gonna type one out for my avatar:

    Alexis Arguello "El Flaco Explosivo"-The Ideal Boxer-Puncher

    Arguello is one of those guys, along with Louis who immediately spring to mind when you hear the term "Boxer-Puncher". From a body perspective, Arguello was tall and lanky for the weights he fought in, and that translated very well into his style.

    Style
    Arguello was a well rounded boxing strategist. Took a stance similar to Louis, hands held high and chin down. He would stalk his opponents with a subtle pressure similar to Louis, stalking his opponent until they opened up or made a mistake, and then he would light them up from the middle range or outside with picture-perfect combinations.

    Offensive Weapons
    His left jab and powerful right cross formed the basis for a great deal of his offense, as well as a lethal left hook. Arguello would throw them as single shots and even more effectively as combinations, which he would flow into after finding weaknesses in his opponent's boxing. Those combinations were typically the catalyst for many of his KOs, but along with combination punching Arguello could counter and had excellent body work.

    Ring Behavior and Rhythm
    As mentioned before Arguello typically stalked his opponents around the ring with a subtle pressure driven by his jabs. At lower weights his power was very real and even his single shot straight punches dissuaded a great deal of fighters from bringing the fight to him in sufficient fashion. Arguello began a fight slower, countering and shoulder blocking and jabbing and would gradually open up into a flurry of combinations, eventually devastating his opponents.

    Defensive Weapons
    Countering, shoulder blocking, jabbing, and crisp, clean fundamentals drove Alexis' defense. His footwork was good enough to get him where he needed to be, and undoubtedly aided in the delivery of a great deal of his knockouts via proper footing. He also possessed a pretty good chin. It took someone like pryor with a lot of volume and power to take him out.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJd2j4LKMU8[/ame]
     
  5. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Nice. Yeah, when it comes to box-punching, he's as good as it gets technically. Ideally i'd like people to be able to question each other's posts on here, not to criticise but simply to discuss. There's not much to question when it comes to Arguello being called upon as a box-puncher though, he's just bona fide. Do you feel his timing was vital to his success?
     
  6. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    I'd rate Arguello as a pure puncher. I've never seen him out-box anybody.
     
  7. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Sometimes when we see the term box-puncher used it is meant as a puncher who goes about his business via well schooled offensive boxing methods, which suits the likes of Louis and Arguello imo. If you think that's wrong and you would rather use the term 'boxer-puncher' for somebody like Lennox Lewis who actually outboxed his opponents whilst hitting home powershots all the while then i'm fine with that. Or say Sonny Liston etc
     
  8. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Harada the swarmer/pressure fighter.

    To be a great swarmer you've obviously got to have a bit of everything in your arsenal. Harada did!

    JAB

    Very effective and underestimated jab. Harada used this as his main weapon. He threw it constantly, doubling and trebling it as he looked for an opening for his combinations. Sometimes just throwing it out, keeping his opponenents busy wondering what was coming next.

    RANGE/FOOTWORK

    I'll put these together cos I think they go hand in hand. He was incredibly light and fast on his feet, always in range or one little bounce away, constantly applying pressure. he Had great balance and was always in a position to throw punches.

    PUNCHING

    What can you say? He could throw every punch in the book, all coming of that jab. The quick right cross coming from behind a series of jabs was something to look out for because once he'd landed that he was on you. Classic right uppercut and hooked with both hands to head and body when in close.

    RING SENSE/GENERALSHIP

    This is where he excelled for me, he always had his opponent second guessing and was so fast. Great counter puncher, lazy shots were punished by this fella and like I said before he was constantly applying pressure, forcing mistakes, his opponents couldn't coast. When your watch him it is evident that he is the one controlling the pace, attacking when he wants to, the patient swarmer you could say.
    He was so strong and knew how to use it. He'd get in throw his shots and grab, push you away and get more shots off.

    DEFENCE

    Like they say, a good offence is a could defence. Great head movement and great speed beating his man to the punch. In close he didn't really give his oppnents the room to get their shots off.

    His a bit of film of him against my favourite Liverpool fighter.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEe-6SEH2wQ[/ame]
     
  9. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Good stuff, as you can probably tell I'm a big fan of arguello and that is a good break down.

    Ray Mancini, Cornelius Boza-Edwards, Jim Watt, Jose Luis Ramirez
     
  10. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Yes, actually. At least on the outside, when he begins opening up his opponent's defense. If you watch him you'll notice the placement of his shots is perfect- almost always aimed at a vital point, and timing plays a major role in that.
     
  11. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Your dad did very well there, a real technical affair that one was, some of the bodywork was fine by both men (i'm sure we've spoke on this before, haha). Nice breakdown Al, can't agree more on the points made of his jab and defence. I'd like to say again that when he showed his versatility, that jab again was the main weapon in his more 'boxing' approach. But he's always a fighter by nature and when he exerted that pressure, like you say, there was not much the opponent could do and it served as a good defence for him. Even somebody like Jofre who you apparently never was in a defensive shell, was forced to do so. Do you think Harada had any glaring weaknesses?
     
  12. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Definitely:good
     
  13. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    You read my mind. :good
     
  14. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Boxer-puncher is a term that represents a fairly wide range of styles, and in the case of Arguello it represents a technically minded offensive puncher who can box to a degree.

    EDIT: teeto already said it :patsch
     
  15. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    :D sorry man:lol: