Masters at Clinches, tell me a few

This is another posting I made to a prior thread:

"Seriously, many fighters use clinching as a defensive tool because they don't know how to infight. They throw one punch and then jump in and hold. Terrell, Angott, Maxim, Godoy come to mind. This is especially difficult for and unfair to counterpunchers. Robinson tended to do it quite often especially as he aged, but also when he was younger. He'd throw a three- or four-punch flurry and then hold. He always employed just enough offense to keep from irritating the crowd. And he mixed it up with a good deal of his patented smooth footwork.

I think if a fighter uses holding as his main defense against an infighter or a counterpuncher then it should be within the referee's discretion to take the round away from him. I'd have to think a bit before I could suggest a hard and fast rule, but some fights are definitely ruined by too much holding as well as being unfair to an opponent, IMO.

One of the most effective practitioners of clinching was Joey Maxim. It drives me nuts to watch him, but he had a way of clinching with, say, his left arm while keeping his right arm free to punch and then switch to clinching with his right and punch with his left. It really kept his opponent from getting set. It was an artful way of clinching, but I still didn't like it.

Sometimes it's necessary to clinch when recovering from a hard punch or if you are off balance after being pushed or missing a punch and clinching should definitely be allowed in those type of situations. Even good fighters can become out-of-condition or lazy sometimes. For example, you could always tell when Giardello hadn't trained properly for a fight. In addition to a slightly more than normal puffy waistline, he clinched frequently."

 

I desperately want all the books you mentioned alongside my The Art of the Clinch and my Adam Pollack “In The Ring With...” series of books. Adam would be proud to be in such elite, literary company.

 

Hatton

 

Great post Kid (if you don’t mind me calling you Kid, I know you’re not a literal kid ).

One other important feature to clinching - at least as I see it, is that it allows important, periodic rest for the practitioner also.

So, if a would be clincher is somehow nullified by his opponent or heavily policed and prevented from over clinching, that could be much more taxing on them and see their stamina more heavily tapped.

That lends to a lil theory I have re Fury vs Ngannou.

Not to necessarily debate as to whether or how much Fury was or wasn’t in shape - but, against Ngannou, he certainly wasn’t able to take luxury in the usual intermittent rest periods he gains when holding and leaning on his opponent.

Ali-Frazier II is THE poster fight for OTT clinching. At fights end, Ali was as fresh as a daisy. Poor Joe, not so.

In Manila, Slappy Carlos Padilla was having none of it.

I know the heat was a big factor but Ali having to fight almost every second of every minute had to have put a much greater strain on his stamina.

If, for whatever reason, Fury can’t or isn’t allowed to manhandle Usyk, it could well see a more dramatically fatigued and vulnerable Fury in the later rounds.

I like sneaking in predictions on upcoming fights into Classic. Keep it to yourself tho.

 

Another great post.

I remember when you posted that previously.

What a fantastic still shot you’ve selected for study and you’ve analysed it perfectly down to the nth degree.

And there’s Johnson, smiling, doing it all with ease. Jeffries so securely locked up and neutralised, Johnson doesn’t even have to look at him.

Lil Arthur is a legend for good reason. Arthurian legend we might call it.

I think they were more lenient on clinching back then - but I believe Johnson’s express practice of same still raised the ire of contemporary audiences who were more desirous of open, punch for punch battles.

Jeffries was that bit bigger in natural terms but in the closer up and clearer photos, you can see how much muscle Johnson had layered onto his early career, skinny body.

Strangely, post career, that muscle appeared to drop off Johnson quite quickly. I understand the ravages of age onset muscle atrophy - but Jeffries, of naturally bigger frame, still looked a bulky man into older age.

Perhaps it goes to show that even though relatively big for his era, Johnson’s size was just as much about muscle “artificially” built as it was about his natural frame. He was sort of a boxer come strong man also.

During his early career, around 1902-1905, in his efforts to get Jeffries to come to the party, Johnson often commented that he was getting bigger all the while.

When KO’d by Choynski in 1901, it’s often overlooked that Johnson was reasonably calculated to have been barely over 170 lbs himself - and it’s made worse given a naturally larger man to be so underweight. Think DLH wasting himself to engage PAC.

For Choynski, being in and around 170 odd lbs was very natural. Johnson himself appeared notably malnourished in early career photos.

Oh my wordy Lordy, I think I’ve typed too much again. Feel free to ignore.

 

Ruiz was a master before his time. Two hundred years from now he will be respected for the genius he was.