Matchmaking Cuban fighters up to Welterweight (147 lbs)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Santiago, Dec 27, 2009.


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  1. Santiago

    Santiago Active Member Full Member

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    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    #1
  2. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Gamboa needs to beat Mtagwa more impressively than JuanMa and get the winner of Lopez/Luevano in the ring. If he wins, he can target a unification fight against Chris John. Elio Rojas he should probably avoid, the risk/reward is not worth it.

    Rigondeaux should be pushed on. He doesn't have any time to waste and can't afford any periods of inactivity. Get him some quality sparring and some guys who'll give him rounds for 2-3 fights and he'll be fine. He just needs to lose some of his amateur habits. But he's got all the skills necessary, and should be looking to fight guys in 5 fights time at the most who'll push him towards a world title shot.

    Barthelemey, frankly the guy needs to develop some power from somewhere because that's his major problem. He's a silky technical operator, but the Ernie Marque fight showed his flaw. He doesn't have the power to gain the respect from his opponent and be able to keep them off him, and at this stage he's still too raw to be able to compose himself and keep cool under the pressure.
     
    TommyV, Dec 27, 2009
    TommyV, Dec 27, 2009
    #2
  3. Cubanborn87

    Cubanborn87 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Rigo vs Caballero
    Gamboa vs "Juan Gabriel" Lopez
     
    Cubanborn87, Dec 27, 2009
    Cubanborn87, Dec 27, 2009
    #3
  4. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    Better keep them all away from rodrigo garcia.
     
    elmaldito, Dec 27, 2009
    elmaldito, Dec 27, 2009
    #4
  5. Santiago

    Santiago Active Member Full Member

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    May 13, 2009
    What are the achievements of Rodrigo Garcia?
    He is fighting at 154? Then we are off topic. However first rodrigo has to fight some better opposition and then he could try Erislandy Lara or he could fight Yudel Johnson tomorrow.

    Yes, this could be his next good fight:

    Rodrigo Garcia(5-0)-Yudel Johnson(4-0)
     
    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    #5
  6. Black Bill

    Black Bill Member Full Member

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    Jul 28, 2009
    You mentioned many of the Cubans that are " C " class like Zamora, Lopez, Santana, Barthelemy etc...

    The best Cubans are without a doubt, Rigondeaux, Gamboa, Lara, Solis, Despaigne, Johnson, Franco etc. All of these can be matched absolutely tough as of right now specially Gamboa and Rigondeaux!

    Here is what I would do...

    Gamboa against anyone just bring them on, he is more than ready!
    Rigondeaux can be matched with a top 5 contender as of right now, he is a beast and can defeat Caballero and JuanMa as of right now! Who is Caballero compared to Rigondeaux? Please... :rofl
    Lara could go against El Perro and teach him boxing ALA Cuban style...
    Solis can fight Austin defeat him and go for the big Russian Robot...
    Franco was an outstanding amateur, he can fight a top 10 opponent as of right now!
    Despaigne and Jhonson were awesome amateurs, they can also fight top 5 guys as of right now!

    Salinas, Santana and Yan Barthelemy are not really that impressive...

    On the other hand, Yan's younger brother Rances looks very promising, he is stronger and better than Yan! He can really go far...

    The bottomline, these are top 7 Cubans that will indeed capture glory:

    Yuriorkis Gamboa-126lbs ( NO DOUBT )
    Guillermo Rigondeaux-122lbs ( NO DOUBT )
    Erislandy Lara-154lbs ( NO DOUBT )
    Odlanier Solis-HV ( if he gets in shape ) HE CAN BUT IT DEPENDS ON HIM
    Yordanis Despaigne-175lbs ( ALMOST CERTAIN )
    Yudel Jhonson-154lbs ( ALMOST CERTAIN )
    Luis Franco-126lbs ( ALMOST CERTAIN )

    The rest like Acosta, Salinas, Yoelvis Gamboa, Yan Barthelemy, Santana, Zamora, Mike Perez, Luis Garcia, Savigne and Stalin Lopez remain to be seen if they can improve as they are not the Cuban Elite, but with dedication and courage they can surely triumph in the pros too but it will be much harder for them...But I will love for them to surprise me!
     
    Black Bill, Dec 27, 2009
    Black Bill, Dec 27, 2009
    #6
  7. Cubanborn87

    Cubanborn87 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    io seen luis franco a few times i dont like what i see so far
     
    Cubanborn87, Dec 27, 2009
    Cubanborn87, Dec 27, 2009
    #7
  8. Santiago

    Santiago Active Member Full Member

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    Hi Balck Bill, I am happy to see that we agreed in most of the points, of course if we consider my other post about matchmaking Cuban fighters from 154 lbs.
    I didn't classify the fighters as elite or not elite fighters as I wanted to have a somehow representative list of all our fighters.

    There are some points where we do not quite agree. You cannot base your argument solely on past amateur achievements. There are other important factors to consider, like age, current physical condition, life style, etc. Therefore I would not include in the current "elite", the last three fighters you included there, namely Johnson, Despaigne and Franco. Despaigne for example was dethroned by Emilio Correa already in 2004 from the Cuban top. He was not included in the Cuban team to the Peking team. He is already 30.
    Johnson was relegated to a secondary role in the same championships long before Despaigne.
    Franco was defeated several times by Yuriorkis Gamboa and others and never reached international notoriousness with the Cuban team.
    On the other hand Santana is another outstanding young fighter who was only 4 times defeated in Cuba.
    Luis Garcia was a junior world champion, and had a victory against the great Emilio Correa, a man who in my view won the gold medal in the past Olympic Games.
    Another big hope is Yoandri Salinas, still 25 years of age. He is until recently a Cuban team member.
    I still hope Barthelemy, our Olympian champion, but was also at the top of the game in Cuba when he left Cuba, has the will and the skills to fight at least for a world championship.
     
    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    Santiago, Dec 27, 2009
    #8
  9. Black Bill

    Black Bill Member Full Member

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Hola Santiago, es un placer hablar contigo.

    Well, first of all I didn't know who Yoandry Salinas was ( even though I have heard his name before I think ), and even less I did'nt know that he had defected! Welcome aboard! We need all the Cubans we can get!

    Secondly, I agree on your points. The reason that I base a fighter's skills on 95% of his Amateur accomplishments is because believe it or not winning and being a World Champ or Olympic Gold Medalist is even harder in my opinion than being a professional Champ ( technically speaking )...

    Yes, I know that Despaigne, Jhonson and Franco were not " Cuba's best " but they were still very " successful " and even getting a second in the Cuban Championships is quite an accomplishment! This is why I feel that those 3 fighters are almost " Elite " and " should " also grab World Titles here " if they are serious enough in the pros "...

    As far as Yan Barthelemy goes, he does'nt have " punching power " something that is very needed in the pros to succeed! Maybe he can develop it doing weights in the gym, who knows but his skills are definitely there! His Chin is not good at all, also a " must have " in the pros and that no one can develop in the gym...His brother Rances is a lot better for the pros I think...

    I know Franco was defeated by Gamboa many times but keep in mind that Yuriorkis is a " future P4P fighter and Hall of fame material ", losing to Gamboa is nothing to being ashamed of...Gamboa is a monster.

    I saw Franco and he impressed me ( not at Yuriorkis' level ) but he can also become professional Champ with dedication...

    About the Cubans in Ireland? I don't know, probably the best of them is Luis Garcia and Acosta ( something does'nt convince me about Mike Perez ) but being in Ireland is not good at all...

    Nice talking to you mi hermano Cubano!!! :good
     
    Black Bill, Dec 27, 2009
    Black Bill, Dec 27, 2009
    #9
  10. Santiago

    Santiago Active Member Full Member

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    May 13, 2009
    Hi Black Bill,

    I believe we have already a big pool of boxers offshore. For years we Cuban fans had an scarce list of prominent boxers, like Casita, Juan Carlos Gomez, Hurtado, but also Eliecer and Eliseo Castillo, Garbey, etc... and they have made us happy and proud (I hope that all of them could have still some hidden card)

    Thanks God, now the newcomers can now fill that gap, as Hurtado, Gomez and Casamayor are becomming more and more inactive.

    As said, I am happy with this new wave of fighters. Some of them are veterans, like Savigne, Johnson, Sullivan Barrera and why not Odlanier Solis. This is partly bad, because some of them are over the zenith in their careers, some of them were already retired. On the other hand these are good news, they are experienced fighters, with a lot of fights and under the rigorousness of the Cuban and international championship system, which is a filter, where only the best remain at the top, the weaker fighters are eliminated relatively soon by that system.

    If you ask my opinion, I am happy with such a high number of fighters, now fighting in profesional boxing, but on the other hand I also hope that many boxers, and also talented athletes will also remain in Cuba, while dreaming to become the next Cuban Amateur World or Olympic champions. Some or them will be happy under the very different Cuban conditions, like Stevenson, Sixto Soria or Felix Savon were. Some will say that the system is just using them, but who cares? ... the bottom line is that they are fighting for their people, and even in their poverty, there are athletes who make us proud.

    Of course many will follow and leave the country as I and probably you did. It is a personal decision, and life as you know is just hard in the island.

    Sorry, hermano, for my delay in answering your post, I just installed Windows 7 in my box, and was unable to properly get my internet access for a couple of days.
     
    Santiago, Dec 29, 2009
    Santiago, Dec 29, 2009
    #10
  11. Black Bill

    Black Bill Member Full Member

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Hola Santiago...

    I was a very big fan of Team Freedom back in the mid 1990's. A lot of them let me down specially Ramon Garbey and Ramon Ledon. They were elite fighters in Cuba but aparently were not that dedicated to the pros. Ramon Ledon was awesome ( defeated Casamayor in Cuba ) and Garbey was also a star in the amateurs. Even though the Castillos brothers were not stars in Cuba ( C level ), they should have had more success in the pros, even though they both fought for World Titles, they also let me down somewhat, I had very high hopes in both of them...

    My biggest let down was Jorge Luis Gonzalez, he had all the tools to be World HV Champ but was a very undisciplined boxer...

    I'll never forget when Joel Casamayor finally became Champ and put Cuba back on the boxing map! Then followed Hurtado ( but his 3 loses to Whitaker, Tszyu and Harris caused a deep unforgettable hurt on me )...

    Juan Carlos Gomez was actually the first to capture glory for Cuba in the pros after Fidel, way before Casamayor, but he also let me down in the HV's when he fought Vitaly, he was so slow and predictable unlike his glory days...

    Putting the past behind us and concentrating on the present, now is when we really have some serious talent on our hands. We had never had so many good Cuban boxers campaigning in the pros! And it looks like they will keep arriving!!!

    I expect for 2010 that at least Gamboa will be a Major undefeated Champion, then Rigondeaux and Lara...The rest like Solis remains to be seen depending on his physical conditioning ( even though I think that even at 270lbs he can still win a World Title ), Jhonson, Despaigne, Barrera, Franco, Savigne, Yoelvis, Rances, Acosta, Perez, Garcia and Salinas all remain to be seen on how many of them will succeed!!!

    Besides Gamboa, Rigondeaux and Lara ( Major future Champions for sure ) I also expect Franco, Despaigne, Solis and Jhonson to also succeed in capturing World Titles, but not to the same results as our top 3 fighters...

    Bueno mi hermano, espero que tengas un feliz año nuevo 2010 y tener bastantes Campeones!!! :good

    Saludos!
     
    Black Bill, Dec 30, 2009
    Black Bill, Dec 30, 2009
    #11
  12. Santiago

    Santiago Active Member Full Member

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    May 13, 2009
    I was never so lucky to be that close to our fighters, the closest I was to them was probably in the 70-ies, when Carrillo, an excellent Cuban fighter with a deathful right hand, but with also a bad chin fought another fighter in the Cardin Championship in the Baseball Stadium of Santiago de Cuba (there is somewhere an epic fight between him and an American don't know when, but probably in the Olympic games of Montreal or in one Panamerican Games, with lots of knockouts in a couple of rounds).
    But I got to know only late about the team freedom, and only saw some of their fights well after the group was disintegrated.
    In particular the case of Ledon was one that made me very curious. A man who fought for the WBA crown against Roberto Garcia after only 11 professional fights. The short comments of that fight reads:

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    Santiago, Dec 30, 2009
    Santiago, Dec 30, 2009
    #12
  13. Black Bill

    Black Bill Member Full Member

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Hola Santiago, I was writing to you hours ago but I fot logged off after writing a long article and I lost it, I was mad about that! So here I go again...

    We have had " hundreds " of Cuban amateur stars since Castro took over. I think I have heard about Carrillo but I don't recall seeing him. Anyway, I really think that if our fighters would have been allowed to fight professionally since 1959 we would be the undisputed King in having more and better Champions, more than PR, Mex, Panama and Venezuela, heck possibly more than the US too!!!

    It's a damm shame that so much talent goes to waste over there, as after their career is over they simply are not seen or remembered anymore ( with very few exceptions like Stevenson, Savon, Rigondeaux etc ) but the rest, simply vanish into the air and the professional Boxing World lost the chance to see this unique talents in action!

    No fear, we are coming back! Little by little, our current fighters are bringing Cuba back into professional boxing!

    About Team Freedom, yeah I got to see them all in action and actually got to meet almost all of them too. Plain and simple, I met Casamayor personally, went to his house 2 times and there I met Garbey, Ramon and Ivan Ledon, Hurtado etc. They were all very nice, but Ramon Ledon indeed was a gentleman. Ramon Ledon's nickname was " el abogado " because he was a very educated and humble fighter ) something unheard of in a boxer. He told me once that he fought Casamayor in Cuba, knocked him down and then Joel got back up and won the bout on points. He told me, " Joel is very, very good ".

    I know that Ramon fought Robert Garcia in his 11th pro fight and almost KO him too! He had monstrous punching power, awesome physique and was a very successful amateur similar to Joel, but he defected at age 31 or 32, making it more difficult for him to adjust to the pros unlike El Cepillo who defected at age 26 and had plenty of time to adapt. Of course, later Casamayor took care of Garcia in spectacular fashion, stopping him for his first time, while Joel was making his 3rd WBA defence I believe...

    One time around 1997 I went to Miami Lakes because they were doing a sparring show open to the public outside a car dealership in the plain sun. There was Hurtado, Casamayor, Garbey, both Ledons and the 2 Castillos. Hurtado started sparring with Ivan Ledon ( Ramon's cousin ) and Hurtado rocked him hard! Ledon started to walk down the stairs almost falling to the ground that he had to be helped. Ramon told me, " le dieron duro a mi primo coño "...

    I know that he dissapeared after he got a quick first round KO after the Garcia fight, apparently he retired. Boxing is super hard and keeping with the harsh training is extremely tough. Maybe Ledon thought that he had enough of fighting and went into something else as after all he seemed a very educated person who has or was going to study something...

    Hablando de nuestros HV's, yo espero que Solis saque la cara por nosotros porque 4 han tratado ( Gonzalez, Gomez y los 2 hermanos Castillos ) y ninguno pudieron ganar el Titulo Mundial. Solis es sin duda el mejor HV Cubano que se ha quedado pero me tiene un poco frustrado porque esta muy pasado de peso. Espero que baje por lo menos 25lbs y se ponga mas en serio, porque es muy posible que pronto le toque con Vitaly el Robot. Si Solis bajare por lo menos a 245lbs, se convertiria en un verdadero dolor de cabeza para todos, Solis tiena una technica, experiencia, aguante y poder mejor que todos y hasta le gano a Savon 2 vecez y a Haye tambien. Si el falla, entonces estaremos sin esperanza porque no hay nadie al momento de los Cubanos ni posiblemente en los proximos años tampoco que pueda ganar el Campeonato Mundial Pesado para Cuba!!!

    Bueno mi hermano, te deseo muchas felicidades en este nuevo año 2010 !!!

    :good
     
    Black Bill, Dec 31, 2009
    Black Bill, Dec 31, 2009
    #13
  14. Kid Cubano

    Kid Cubano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hey cubanos!
    i read all the posts,very interesting,just i dont see Solis beating any Klitskos any time soon-even if he gets in shape,wich is very unlikely- those ukranianas are way too big and strong and definitely they know how to handle the little ones in the ring...otherwise i see Solis beating anybody else.
    the future- i agree-rests in gamboa,Rigo and Lara,those 3 should consolidate themself in 2010 and gamboa should be considered beteween top 10 p4p...
    lets hope more cubans defect next year and they have the oportunity everyone else have around the world,lets hope Cuba will regain its strenght in profesional boxing like it was before 1959...there are more kid chocolates and gavilan in the making!
    saludos y feliz 2010
     
    Kid Cubano, Dec 31, 2009
    Kid Cubano, Dec 31, 2009
    #14
  15. Black Bill

    Black Bill Member Full Member

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Hey hermano, feliz año nuevo 2010!

    Yeah, we need Cuba to produce more Kid Chocolates and Gavilans, but don't worry, Gamboa is the next Chocolate and Rigondeaux the next Gavilan!!!

    One thing I don't agree with you, I think an in shape Solis can defeat both Klitschkos!!!

    Saludos amigo... :thumbsup
     
    Black Bill, Jan 2, 2010
    Black Bill, Jan 2, 2010
    #15
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