Max Baer and size advantage myth

I agree strongly that who you stop & if they stop you only depends in part on power.
If you combine...combinations, accuracy, finishing ability, speed & many other factors-thhey mean more together than mere raw power.
You can hit the hardest ever & not have the skills to even not get defeated, let alone finish a man.

Baer's punches contributed to the death of 2, not 3 opponents. Though only one was clearly & directly just from his blows.
I think he & Williams, Liston & Foreman hit about the same, it is impossible to say with confidence who hit hardest, they were all "10's".
But I do not see Baer as not going all out to finish Carnera-he just coud not finish the big man.

 

Baer did hit hard like a mother****er does not matter the size of his rivals

 

Now all of a sudden Max Baer isn't one of the all time great punchers? "Keyboard" revisionists...amazing!!!

 

Aye, one in sparring was talked about in the book 'Cinderella Man'. His name escapes me.

 

Nitpicking? How is a 4 fighter comparison a nitpick?? You´re posting some rubbish.
I was not debating weight here if thats what you´re not getting, but Baer beeing some kind of killer. A sharp, but not that hard puncher in Louis more than halfed the rounds of the fellows both fought.

If you want to check weights, add the numbers and compare the avarages or the median if fat amateurs on the debut are included. I don´t need to show you how to do.
Nevertheless, the background weight of that era were someone had to get on top was that of CW in the 80s. What might it tell about the quality of some 220lb fighters of the time? It is like it is. And Baer was a legitimate 210lb fighter as well.

 

Yeah, thats all you find to quote, right? Louis was more sharp puncher than a heavy banger. I gave you 4 fighters to compare.

Just this thread?

 

Where did you give me Foremans opponents to compare with another puncher AS A TYPE OF REFERENCE? Because that´s what I did. Its not my problem that are simply to stupid to get what I´m arguing.

Foreman almost stopped anybody at young age until he met The Goat in top shape, including another ATG and Norton. WTF point are you trying to make?

What did Baer do to make him a murderous puncher?

 

We need more here as Baer had 72 total fights.

Baer didn't use his size or reach vey well. He had an erratic jab and failed to set up the right hand with it. With an 82" reach, and his power, combined with a very good chin, Baer was not the sum of his parts in many of his fights. Modest skills and defense.

 

Heavyweights back then intentionally cut weight and made sure to stay below a certain amount for speed and stamina. Some of then fought outdoors and for 15 rounds. You try boxing that long weighing more than 230 lbs and see how your legs and knees start to swear at you.

It doesn't make sense to penalize Baer and assume his power is overrated because the average opponent in his era was cruiserweight sized when the trainers of said opponents ordered their fighters to lose weight.

On top of that, chin, along with the ability to avoid being knocked out has absolutely nothing to do with weight. A guy could be 230 lbs of rock solid muscle and have a glass jaw. Stamina, defense, reflexes, the strength of your legs, and willpower are all factors that contribute to wether or not a fighter gets KO'd. If I'm rating knockouts, if fighter A knocks out a 205 pound opponent with a great chin who has great footwork, slips punches well, has a tight guard, and has great recovery, and fighter B knocks out an opponent who weighs 240 lbs with an average chin but has horrible defense, flat feet, and average recovery, knocking out the first opponent is clearly more impressive given that the 2nd one is basically a big heavybag.

Or how about a huge skilled 240 pound guys with great defense and head movement but a glass jaw that easily shatters? Is that more impressive than KOing a 210 pound guy whose got a chin like Oliver McCall but has average skills and stats in other areas? I want to hear your thoughts.

As for Louis stopping guys faster than Baer, that is due to his superior hand speed, timing, he threw better combinations, and he was a better finisher. I'm 100% certain Baer had more 1 punch KO power in an individual all out singular punch than Louis. For comparison, Ali was a much better finisher and overall more skilled fighter than Shavers and stopped better opponents, but obviously doesn't have remotely the same 1 punch KO power.

Not to be a smart alleck but Baer was literally a killer due to how hard he hit. But he didn't have the heart to belt opponents as viciously after those incidents and was a goofy guy that didn't dedicate himself to boxing the way say, a focused Holyfield did. I don't see how you could possibly question the power of a guy whose reputation has endured for more than 80 years and him losing the title was one if the craziest upsets in sports comparable to Tyson vs Douglas. Simply choosing to ignore history and the psychological effect killing or injury a person would have on a fighter is bizarre to say the least. You do realize great fighters such as Robinson and Ezzard Charles went through something similar and adjusted their styles as a result? Do you criticize them and accuse them of having "overrated power"?