Max Baer and size advantage myth

Yeah I coulda swore their was another sparring partner. Their was Frankie Campbell, Ernie Schaaf, and someone else. For the record, Sylvester Stallone claims to be the reincarnation of one of them!

 

Before you start throwing books again and weasling around:

Do you think an avarage Heavyweight does hit harder than an avarage 190lb-CW?
Do you think an avarage 190lb-CW does take the same punch than an avarage Heavyweight?

We can stop this right here!

I always said make avarage numbers for Baers weight as well as Baers opponents avr weight. The thing about the background lvl. to overcome has been said too.

I don´t care how Baer hit on bags, Cabdrivers or Firemen. What on his resume did he do to be such a hard puncher? On film. Or on paper. No blabla about Robinsons and other stories. Its simply about Baer.

 

Did you answer anything about what I was talking about?
WHO did he stop? A couple of quick knockouts about solid fellows of his weight too?

 

I'm pretty sure it was just two.

 

Is this a joke?
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/4343

Is see a list full of 220-240lbs and tons of KOs/TKOs. I´m going to start getting tired of your nonsense....And thats just 2 seconds out of my mind.

Including that post-Louis run in 1936 against absolute beginners and fellows on the debut?

 

Averages are impossible to determine for an entire era when it comes to intangible factors such as chin, will power. This is because not only is there no concrete scientific way to measure the durability of more than 200 active boxers in a division (it's quite different from measuring very tangible things like hand speed, punching power, accuracy, etc), but because there is much more limited film of pre 70's/color tv boxers. The numbers would be skewed because boxing was much a much more popular sport back then with far more participations+people tuning in. Boxing may be more global now as far as international broadcasting and participation is concerned, but in the old world you could have dozens of obscure fighters and contenders with incomplete records.

The closest you could get to finding the average durability of an era would be to take 50 of the most noteworthy boxers and comparing their KO losses. This would still be very flawed due to the fact boxers take less fights per year, fight for less rounds, and usually don't fight very stiff competition until they've compiled a record of around 20 something wins in today's era.

As for the average cruiser's power compared to the average heavy, that is also not so cut and dry because in literally every era you had guys that weighed in the whopping 240+ super heavy class. You have giants that lack punching power, some that do but can't take a hit, guys who are below even the cruiser limit yet hit like a truck (bob Fitzsimmons), guy whose weight fluctuated throughout their career from cruiser to heavy (Holmes, Holyfield, etc). There are so many factors at play that makes it hard to give a strict black and white answer.

There are several reasons why he's considered a hard puncher

-the obvious on screen devastating effect of his punches
-retiring with a respectable 64% KO ratio
-scoring 110 knock downs in his career
-literally killing guys in the ring
-if it's ranked competition you're after, he stopped several men who were ranked.
-if it's skilled opponents with high ring IQ, he stopped Schmeling
-if it's large opponents he stopped several who weighed more than 200 lbs as had been pointed out to you by 70'sfan on the first page.
-if it's early round KO's that indicate power to you, he has several.
-the testimony of opponents in awe of his power.

I don't get what it is you're not satisfied with. No matter which opponent example someone gives, you will simply shift the goal post and say "they were too small" or "they were big but they were oafs" or "they weren't very skilled" or "they might have been a little skilled but they wouldn't make it in today's era" to imply none of his accomplishments count and diminish his power. He has the stats and on film results to prove he hit hard. It's not rocket science. No one is claiming he was the greatest fighter ever or that he'd easily put Muhammad Ali to sleep in 1 round.

Again there's a difference between punching technique, being a skilled fighter, being a good finisher, and being a hard puncher. It cannot be denied that Baer was a very hard puncher. His resume and overall ability is honestly not all that different from Shavers, Cooney, Ruddock, Morrison, Tua, and Wilder, who frequently make the top 10 of several people's lists when it comes to raw power. Only 2 of those guys managed to become heavyweight champion (and neither were undisputed)--Which shows you power isn't everything. The fact they had the success that they did despite all their glaring flaws and lack of finesse shows you how hard they hit.

 

These five?

212 lbs Chet Shandel in two rounds
208 lbs Tom Heeney in three rounds
221 lbs Walter Cobb in four rounds
214 lbs Hank Hankinson in one round
207 lbs Pat Comiskey in one round

Cool.
I´ll give you the murderous puncher Pinklon Thomas. Did you know him and seen him fight? He could stop even 6 big fellows early:

220 lb George Jerome in two rounds
214 lb Luis Acosta in two rounds
215 lb Herman Jackson in three rounds
221 lb Larry Beilfuss in one round
220 lb Bobby Jones in one round
226 lb Adolph Davi in one round

And you know what? I´ll even make it eight!

225 lb Frankie Hines in one round
228 lb Mike Owens in three rounds

And you know something else? If my math is right, thats even bigger fellows Pinky stopped!

Are disputing Pinklon Thomas was a hell of a puncher?

 

FFS, can you just simply answer the questions? I not interested in reading your book.

Do you think an avarage Heavyweigth does hit harder than an avarage 190lb-CW?
Do you think an avarage 190lb-CW does take the same punch than an avarage Heavyweight?

Answer this with one sentence max. If you don´t, we can just stop this.

- He fought tons of fellows with zero resume
- 64 % is nothing respectable, nevertheless his KO/win-ratio is better
- Killing a guy can happen, you could write two books about it and how it can happen
- Schmeling was 14 lb smaller, who took him 10 rounds
- My last post is about his ridiculous "resume with bigger fellows"
- Want to compare this with Peter McNeeleys early KOs against bigger fellows?

I think his resume simply lacks the punchers pattern, even apart from the better fellows he fought. Alot of fighters took him the distance as well. Regarding film: He looks absolute awful.

 

Are you disputing that Pinklon Thomas stopped more and bigger boxers than you brought up for Max Baer?

220 lb George Jerome in two rounds
214 lb Luis Acosta in two rounds
215 lb Herman Jackson in three rounds
221 lb Larry Beilfuss in one round
220 lb Bobby Jones in one round
226 lb Adolph Davi in one round
225 lb Frankie Hines in one round
228 lb Mike Owens in three rounds

Was Pinky a hell of a puncher yes or no??