Ok so what you are saying is take no notice of the actual measurements which were done multiple times that show my mentioned guys to be bigger than Max. You've deduced more from photo's of them standing near more current champs (no longer in fighting shape and often many many years removed from the ring). Baer looks bigger than Joe Louis prime and old old Joe looked as big as Holmes and Ali so Baer is bigger than Holmes, Ali and Foreman as well. Gotcha.
True. And neither would Sonny have his usual advantage of size strength and reach. It’s a good fight isn’t it!
Well i'll happily take those measures over others eyesight, particularly those with a horse in the race.
Great picture. I think it would be good as long as it lasted, but I don't think it would last that long and Liston would win by knock-out. Liston was a monster in his prime.
No. Sonny was much stronger and far more skilled. I see him beating Max as conclusively as Louis did.
I don’t know about that. Joe Louis had to fight like hell, using all of his unusual precision to get out of a ferocious onslaught from Baer in the first round. That was a real turning point. It is no way certain that Sonny could in the same situation. He punched slower and more deliberately than Joe Louis. When Baer went wild like that at Joe, you think Sonny could have responded as instantaneously, with enough precision to thwart Baers attack? Of course Sonny came back from heavy fire against Cleveland Williams but by comparison, Williams was a different fish to Max Baer. I doubt Baer would have let Liston off the hook in the way Williams did. There’s not many getting away from a prime Max Baer in full flow.
Your "ferocious onslaught" lasted precisely 6 seconds before Louis took command. This was all Baer did in the first round. It only takes one powerful; accurate counter to thwart such an onslaught. Liston was a very very good technician for a heavyweight and i have very little doubt he would have thwarted it, if he ever actually had to.
Max was a big strong fella with a huge right hand that he could land on top level fighters but thats about it. His skill set was shyte he could go to town like a madman and was destructive, even at the highest level, but was wide open. Max has his moments but Sonny by ko round 5
But it could be 6 seconds that turn into 10 seconds against Sonny. And it wasn’t just one counter that thwarted the onslaught! Louis had to fire back with many punches (which all landed) to stem the avalanche of leather coming his way. Most would not be so lucky. I guess it really depends how many times better you think Max Baer was to Cleveland Williams. I think it is valid to suggest Baer was much better than Williams and would therefore always do better against the guys Williams hurt in the same situation.
I get what you are saying. He was lazy. Fought in bursts. Had a lousy fight with Braddock. Often took rounds off to recoup.. But I think a killer like Liston would really bring the best out of him. He got Joe Louis on a very good night not many could live with that version. If you took 20% from Louis Max would have been in that fight. Sonny was an easier target from Baers point of view. The long right hand, the physicality of a man that big really represents more of a problem than anything Liston faced from Floyd Patterson and Roy Harris type guys he feasted on. So far as his skill, Baer had a lot of tricks. This content is protected This content is protected
Firstly i didn't say Baer was lazy. I'm not sure how on earth you could ascertain that from me saying all he did in the 1st round was fire punches for 6 seconds. You think a killer like Liston would bring out the best of him yet Louis didn't. Well apart from 6 seconds. Taking 20% off Louis is utter speculation. Liston an easier target? Louis was quite hittable and Liston had excellent defensive fundamentals thanks very much. As far as size Liston whupped Valdez and Williams who lost nothing on Baer for size. You really should do some research being spewing such tripe.
I know you have the hots for me but I was actually replying to barberboy2. So I didn’t say you or anyone else thinks Baer was lazy. I was the one who thinks Baer could be lazy because he did take rounds off. That is a reasonable assumption viewing more of Baers fights. I would like to hear more from Listons “excellent defensive fundamentals” since you mention it, because it seemed to me he couldn’t get his face out of the way in quite a few fights. How close in class were on old Valdes and second tear Williams to Max Baer?