Baer is my favorite HW of the past, but with his wide-open, free swinging style, he's be picked apart by Frazier. Doubt he'd stop him - Baer could absorb a tremendous amount of punishment and still keep coming - but Frazier would clearly outscore him, and beat him up pretty bad.
This is how I kind of see it as well. Baer was certainly dangerous and could definately hurt Frazier, but I think Joe's handspeed and swarming style would lead to him landing too often for Max. Probably a good fight though.
That's a good point. I didn't mean to imply that Baer had NO chance. He has a puncher's chance, certainly - but he'd have to jump on Frazier early, imo.
Though a ferocious puncher, I don't believe Baer had the ability to lift Frazier off the canvas the way Foreman did. We also have to remember that George needed to floor him 6 times before we finally saw a stoppage. This was also not a peak Frazier either. I think that if we took Joe Frazier from the fight of the century, and put him in with Max baer about the time he fought Primo Carnera, Joe would beat him up pretty badly. I was never very impressed with baer's style. Sure Foreman swung widely to, but Baer looked sloppier. He left himself open to counter attack almost everytime he threw a punch. If you watch some of his fights off of youtube, such as his match with Galento, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I watched the Galento fight today, in fact!! In many of his fights Baer fights as a free-swinging brawler. The sad part about it, imo, is that Baer could, when he wanted, jab reasonably well and set up punches - and he is pretty fast, particularly for the time period. He seemed to be often impatient in the ring and abandoned the jab and often swung widely. So unless Baer adopted a more discplined style than he typically did, I think that your assessment of his potential against Frazier is likely accurate - and although he COULD potentially take Frazier out ala Foreman, I don't think he WOULD.
I thought Foreman left himself wide open to counter attack too, all the time. In fact, against Schmeling, Baer at least sometimes holds his chin right down, brings his shoulder in, and has a compact crouch and parrying hand. Foreman had his own arms out mummy-walk though, and he would push and spin guys well, and bounce out of the way on occasions. I think Foreman was actually more agile on his feet than Baer, but when he planted his feet and started swinging he looks just as crude and open to me. Baer's main advantage against Frazier is the fact that he used similar rough tactics as Foreman did, he'd push, throw and spin smaller men and give them a few shots on the way past. Obviously Baer had power. He wasn't as aggressive as Foreman - in fact sometimes he was just lethargic and passive - but he could be vicious at his best. And Baer could soak up punishment. It's not an easy fight for Frazier by any means, of course. I'm a fan of Frazier (who isn't?) but he's got his work cut out here.
This is why I'm wondering about the Ben Foord fight being filmed. I'm almost sure it was the Foord fight that astounded many ringsiders who had never seen Baer box such a disciplined fight. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it is the Foord fight that has been called his best BOXING performance, and it ended in a convincing KO too. I cant remember where I read about it but it stuck in my mind. Baer-Galento lived up to its billing "Battle of the Bums"
Hard fight to call. Interesting match to think about. Baer is lazy and sloppy. Sometimes he did not force the action, but Frazier is the type to forces you to work. This means Baer won't be as lazy or passive as he wants to be, and will have a better chance at landing something serious vs an aggressive Frazier. Baer does have great power. Enough to stop Frazier early or late in the fight. So what happens here? Baer has the punchers chance, but lacks the skills on offense and defense. I think Frazier could work his way inside, since Baer didn't have a good jab, or classic set up to the right hand, Frazier could smother him a bit like Joe Louis did, minus the powerful combination that Louis had. The fight might look a bit like Frazier vs Bugner on the cards, with Baer having perhaps a few more dramatic moments of action than Bugner did. Maybe Frazier would go down once or twice, but I do think he had a much better fighting heart and will to win. I'll go with Frazier via decision.
I think that this would be a total blood fest. If you put a determined baer up against anybody willing to trade with him it is going to get ugly and unpredictable. I dont think that Baer Frazier or Baer Marciano would be a foregone conclusion.
The Baer that pulverised Schmeling could stop Frazier,but he would have to turn the trick early imo,otherwise ,once Joe got rolling ,and into his rythmn,it would start to be oneway traffic,Frazier was faster ,and more focused ,but Maxie has the proverbial punchers chance against any body ,if and its a big if ,he comes in the ring in the right frame of mind. IMO.