Max Baer vs David Tua

You understand the slugger swarmer dynamic right?

A slugger doesn't need to be a defensive genius, if he is fighting a shorter swarmer.

His reach and offense, are an effective defense.

 

Lots of Baer doubters here. If the guy was currently operating he would be HW Champ.

He had quicker feet than Foreman, with perhaps a superior overhand right, and similar durability. A focused Baer terrorizes any era.

 

There is no singular slugger swarmer dynamic—especially when the swarmer hits every bit as hard as the slugger. Sometimes the slugger gets swarmed; sometimes the swarmer gets slugged. This paper-scissors-rock approach to evaluating styles doesn’t work because there is so much variation within these categories

How do you draw the line between swarmer and slugger, anyway?

 

It’s really something else. Never really pegged him as such a revisionist—this seems like more of a page out of a different poster’s playbook...

 

Yes there really is.

Obviously the swarmer doesn't always lose, or he wouldn't bother to turn up to the fight, but the slugger will almost invariably over perform, and the swarmer will almost invariably under perform.

Both the swarmer and the slugger emphasize aggression, punch output, over classical boxing technique.

The crucial difference is that the swarmer works in close to smother his opponent and apply pressure, while the slugger works at range and can often work on the forefoot or the back foot with equal facility.

A fighter with very short reach will often have very little choice but to be come a swarmer, while a slugger would typically have at least average reach or greater.

A swarmer will typically to a lot better against a technical boxer than a slugger, because they can smother the technician and stop them functioning effectively, while the slugger gives the technician room to work and gets picked apart.

The swarmers kryptonite however is the slugger, because they are both playing the same game, except that the slugger is going to get there first every time.

That is why Joe Frazier could never have beaten George Foreman, even though his defense and punch output were far superior.

 

Also one thing to emphasize - Baer had no heart as we saw when he faced the only skilled power punching elite fighter - Joe Louis, he quit.

It is safe to assume he pulls another quit job after tasting Tua's power.

 

Baer had 10X more heart than Tua.

He had his breaking point, as most fighters do, but he never signed the silent contract.

He always forced the fight, and took a helacious beating if he had to.

 

Yeah, he's generally quite level headed compared to some posters that like to argue the case for older fighters, though he does have that weird slugger/swarmer/boxer formula that he cranks out from time to time in lieu of actual individual breakdowns of the fighters involved. I see he's done it again this thread.

Oh well. At least he hasn't compared Max Baer to Lomachenko yet. That whole altercation (I think you can guess who with) was just mind-boggling.

 

I wouldn't say he had no heart, but it wouldn't be lack of heart that would scupper him against Tua but inability to withstand Tua's insane power shots crunching into his grill round after round. Actually, I'm not sure Baer takes more than a few clean shots before he succumbs. I can't envision anything else other than a very early and brutal stoppage unless Baer miraculously manages to spoil his way into the middle or later rounds.

 

Baer wouldn't even cut it at cruiserweight.

Which is where he would operate these days.

 

I see no way possible Tua bothers to get in top shape for this guy. He'd see how sloppy this guy is and would come in heavier than he should and go ahead and drop a decision in an otherwise winnable fight. No sense getting razor sharp for a guy like Baer. But he'd go in thinking in was going to be an easy night's work and find out different as the rounds go by. Tua with his B game does not get this guy out of there and he won't win enough rounds to win a decision either. Come in at 224 and it would be easy, but that prospect is far too remote & his roadwork and jumping rope regimen might add up to 3 hours. Collectively.

 

He was like "no mas" vs Louis after taking few combos, the same would happen after Tua catches him with his bombs

 

Taking a few combos!

Have you actually seen the fight?

Louis throws everything except the kitchen sink at him for four rounds, and Baer was still trying to win the fight right up until the end.

He didn't g o into a shell, and settle for a decision loss, as Tua sometimes did.

Baer claimed that he blacked out while he was taking the count.

Perhaps he did and perhaps he didn't.

Some sources suggest that he broke his right hand, in which case he was unequivocally right to quit.

Either way he showed more heart in those four rounds, than Tua showed in all of his most important fights put together!

 

Not complaining, just pointing out your MO. An absurd argument kept going with gibberish till the other party gets bored and walks. As long as it's between consenting adults, whatever floats your boat.

 

Lost in all this Baer ballyhoo is the fact that in his prime he lost to guys like Risko, Schaff, Uzcudun, the great Les Kennedy and another sloppy brawler in Braddock. He also had a penchant for DQ's. His insistence on fouling might also be factor on the outcome.

But there is no way that a prime Tua would pull the trick.