Max Baer vs David Tua

Yea I saw the fight and saw Baer's interview where he claimed that he was scared of Louis and the audience is gonna have to pay a lot more to see a public execution… Tua beat a lot of fighters late in the fight, while behind on points and taking a lot of punishment, while Baer quit when the going gets tough as we saw vs Louis

At least Tua settle for a decision loss vs Lewis, while Baer simply did a quit job vs Louis

 

I think I give Baer more credit for actually trying to win to be honest.

Might I ask which fighters Tua beat late in the fight while behind on points?

 

The only people who beat Baer in his prime were Braddock, Louis, and just arguably Tommy Farr.

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain these things. Without someone like you to educate us, we would all be lost.

 

No charge!

 

The slugger will "almost invariably" over perform? Based on what? I assume you have tons of examples other than Foreman-Frazier?

The slugger gets there first every time? Actual boxing matches don't work that way.

The Foreman-Frazier match is obviously different from this one in so many important ways that's it's probably not worth breaking down in depth but if you watch the first fight, Frazier was actually standing right in his preferred punching range when he sustained most of the damage. It was not a story of a swarmer losing because of the slugger's reach advantage. There are numerous better explanations for why Frazier lost in such spectacular fashion.

 

We can start with future heavyweight champions Maskaev and Rahman.

 

Agree, Frazier wasn't strong like Tua, he didn't have the power and the durability of Tua, Frazier was a quick, aggressive fighter with determination and a quick, hard left hook. When he wasn't 100% physically, he was much diminished. Foreman got a much less than 100% Frazier. Foreman might have beaten him anyway, but who knows? A guy who fights like Frazier has to train hard, he doesn't have the physicality that would allow him to drink heavy and spend a lot of time with his band prior to a fight.

 

Not lost, completely denied.

 

Some examples off sluggers besting swarmers off the top of my head are Basillio Fulmer, Nelson Wolgast, Griffith Carter, Levinsky Baer, Patterson Liston, and indeed Tua Ibeabuchi.

Sluggers don't just beat swarmers because they typically have a reach advantage, they set up their shots more and use the swarmers momentum against them.

Presumably you are not going to argue that Foreman's victory had nothing to do with styles?

 

Neither of those things have much bearing on what happened in the fight either. As I recall the fight, neither man really set up many punches and Joe was mostly standing still or uselessly bobbing and ducking when he suffered most damage. In this fight, the slugger threw far more punches than the swarmer, even when Foreman’s head was well within Frazier’s punching range.

 

To what do you attribute Foreman's success, or Frazier's lack thereof?

 

Baer would cream him

 

For one, career trajectory and potential. Joe was at the end of his, having been one of the two dominant forces in the division for 7 years. Given his physical attributes, injuries and the seduction of outside interests, that was an incredibly long run. Foreman was just coming into his first peak.

That is the greater narrative, not styles.

 

Are you saying that a peak Frazier would have beaten him?