Max Baer vs David Tua

I hope it's the former. This situation is getting ridiculous.

 

Sharkey was anything but stiff. He was quick and athletic for his size. His head movement was absolutely amazing.

He also had his share of weaknesses, but saying that he's "crude" and "basic" makes me question your intentions. Maybe it's because the quality of 1930s tapes and unnatural speed they run at? I don't know, but it's usually the case with people questioning sport legends.

 

LOL maybe compared to his eras opponents but compared to somebody like Usyk or Fury or Golota or even even gatekeepers like Parker he is stiff as sh!t. It does not take a genius to see this. He is crude as hell

 

Mostly agree with you, but I have to (urgh) side with 70s fan here and disagree on Sharkey as well. The man wasn't exactly a technical wizard, but he was far more advanced than most of the fighters at that time, and there are even some things he does that wouldn't be out of place today. Educated use of the lead hand to frame or jab, quality left hook that was both well timed and well thrown out of a crouch, decent head movement and combinations that were a cut above most of the crude bar room brawling that passed for world level prizefighting back then.

But like a lot of fighters from the pre-Louis era he seemed to have that weird trait of not syncing his legs up with his punches properly, so that he was constantly lunging or punching squared up in that kangaroo boxing style where both fighters seem to be pulling away at the same time as they're throwing combinations. Lots of wild overhand rights with his rear leg flying off the canvas as well, but not nearly as egregious as a lot of his competition.

Gene Tunney's worth a second look as well. There were a lot of good things fighters from that period were doing, but it has to be filtered out from the dross. You're rarely going to get a HW that's the full package till Joe Louis.

 

No, I disagree with your take. What exactly makes him stiff? He's definitely quicker and trickier than Gołota.

 

Regarding Sharkey i did say he may have been quick, athletic, and had great headmovment for his time on the post right above yours, well realistically speaking even now his head movement would be good, but from what i can see on footage he's nowhere near Usyk. He leaping left hook and some of his combination punching was very disorganized and technically wrong at times, some so incorrectly it looked like they were attempting weird careless overhand rights or something when both were exchanging in mid range and he had a tendancy to telegraph a lot of his shots by holding his lead hand or his "jab" onto the opponent and punching over it. Almost nobody in his era had the abilities to slip or block it and then immediately proceed to counter punch on him even though it would be cake walk for a modern day world class fighter. He was skilled but only compared to guys in his era.

When they threw big shots and missed they moved themselves out of position constantly but you didn't see a lot of people with the skills to capitalize on this at least until Schmeling came along but even Schmeling did this too as his rights were sloppy moving into range. Tua for example could counter automatically and he was good at it.

I agree, Joe Louis was the package. I'd actually favor him to beat down Wilder. But not any elite SHW tbh. Like Bowe, The Klitschkos, Lewis, Fury, etc.

 

Don't watch the highlights and watch the full fights. Against Carnera, Schmeling, Walker(literally a light heavyweight moving up from welterweight wtf). Just because he had good head movement doesn't mean his overall technique wasn't sloppy and methodical compared to world class fighters today. And no it has nothing to do with the footage

 

facts why would the quality of video make any difference on how a person fights

 

Tua is faster punching, without question a bigger puncher , a two handed puncher, faster starting and proved his chin and ability to take a shot against much bigger and stronger men .. many guys who could box and had size could decision Tua but very few out punch him .. I see him wrecking Baer who was hittable .. the only fighter I saw Baer fight that was very fast and hard hitting was Louis and that didn't goo well at all ..

 

No, he isn't near Usyk I agree. Although Usyk himself isn't that technical compared to a lot of heavyweights when isolated to short snippets either. Slightly leaky defence, tendency to throw shots (especially hooks) when out of range to land them, lack of ability to fight off the ropes, overly upright stance lacking upper body movement etc. His quality only emerges when viewed over the entire fight. Watching Usyk get the rhythm of his opponents, time them and start to break them down with educated shots and relentless pressure is where you see a world class operator at work. I see a similar thing in Sharkey. You can pick holes in individual things he's doing, but taken as a whole you see a patient thinking fighter using footwork, angles and an educated jab to break down opponents.

Here's Jack against Schmeling. Watch how patient Sharkey is, using his jab to feint and frame Schmeling, or lead him onto short countershots, turning him to keep from getting too settled or attacking in bursts when Max isn't expecting it. Watch his subtle, effective head movement that's just enough to evade Max's shots and land his own, or his quality guard in the pocket that mixes in dips and leans that still allow him attacking opportunities. From a technical and tactical POV this is way more advanced than anything someone like Parker is doing. Most impressive for me is how calm under fire Sharkey is. Something almost James Toney-ish in his attitude where he seems totally at ease even when Schmeling is going after him with hard combinations.

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Also, never noticed how much Sharkey resembles Mairis Briedis in this vid. Eerily similar.

 

I wouldnt wanna see dave vs max would be a way to the hospital that max or none of those dudes would be the same

 

I just questioned it.

I think that Tua's credentials as a puncher at the highest level, are very questionable indeed.

 

That's good to know.

 

A bit like Shavers then?

 

I would consider that a flattering comparison for him.