Max Baer vs David Tua

Honestly, calling Ruiz a champ to strengthen an argument against a 30s fighter when there weren't 4 belts is more impressive sleight of hand for me.

Max Baer stopped a SHW Lineal HW champion who defended it twice, while he was champion, and became the new lineal HW champion. Different levels of impressive.

 

What have you watched that would make you think that?

https://streamable.com/7n5e6
Imagine Tua punching this fast.

The thought of Tua having faster hands than Baer is pretty hilarious to me.

~90's Boxing~

 

Really, how many Black fighters did Baer have to face? I know it was a super even playing field back then so he didn't get any benefit from that I suppose.

 

Dude this obsession you have of hating on fighters because they’re white needs to stop. Black fighters aren’t some higher level of fighting machine. They can be, but they aren’t automatically by the merits of their skin color.

Maybe by mentioning specific names you could actually be productive in your critique since you would be addressing real matchups. Not some blanket generalization.

He faced Joe Louis, gave him the utmost props, and was friends with him. Was that not enough to prove who he would’ve been willing to face in the ring? Was there some unspoken quota I’m missing?

I find it insulting and dehumanizing to assume someone is a better fighter because he is black.

20% of the posters here remind me of the brother from Get Out. White guys assuming blacks people are great fighters because they’re black, to the point of weirdness.

 

Uhh.. that's not overly fast. And again, if Baer tries that close in flailing combo, he would be in for a RUDE awakening.

Funny that Holyfield remarks in interviews how quickly David got his punches off. But what would he know.

 

Can you show me Tua punching faster?

The skewed nomenclature you use to move goal posts reeks of desperation.

Flailing combos? Have you seen FOTC? Because Ali was “flailing combos” all night.

Im sure he’d be in for a RUDE awakening. He would be seeing stars out cold in the real world. The 90s world. When punches first started doing serious damage in our species long arc of evolution.

In reality when a scary fighter fights a class one, they don’t look so scary. They can’t impose their wills like they normally do. And that’s exactly what would happen with Baer.

Tua would be stationary. Max would be on the outside jabbing and countering. Modernistas would be crying.

 

No one is saying better per se. But when we look at the history of the heavyweight division, we would be deceiving ourselves to say that Black Americans were not in a position to be exceptionally motivated and exceptionally able. It is an anomaly, and perhaps an anomaly that has a cause, when they are almost entirely absent.

When a white fighter operated in an era when black talent was suppressed (a polite term) he benefited. Flat out. Tua did not operate in such an era. Marciano did not (the mob was way more a factor by then). The Klits didn't.

 

Absolutely. But who was the Jack Johnson and Sam Langford of the 30s?

Joe Louis was the man of the day. Baer saddled up and took his whooping from him. So where exactly is the issue?

There were no other major threats.
It’s just another lazy and inaccurate way for modernistas to bolster their faves.

 

Well, since you have obviously never seen Tua fight, I suppose one could star here...

https://giphy.com/gifs/yvAiKm2OJD70R6YQFW

 

So, you want to take the hill that Blacks had equal opportunity in boxing in the 1930's as did Whites and that they weren't suppressed from the bottom up, from recruitment to title shots? You think that some smart young fellow went out of his way to Sequals Italy because there was a real talent there the likes of that could not be found in the US?

 

It’s impossible that an Italian guy was more talented than black fighters? According to what?

Lomachenko is the most talented small fighter today. Even more so than, gasp, American black fighters! And he’s Ukrainian.

You know that I know about 20th century race issues, which is why I responded to your description of the challenges black fighters faced by replying with “absolutely.”

But youve completely missed or ignored my point that there were relatively no serious threats in the form of black American boxers besides Joe Louis in Baers era. Who was the Jack Johnson that Baer avoided?

Again you’re reverting to your blanket generalizations. We get it. You support the plight of 20th century black Americans. Bravo. Now try to develop some nuance on top of it inwhich you’re not victimizing innocent parties with false allegations.

 

You think his hand speed is faster in that clip than the one I showed? Lol.

The camera is up way closer. The quality is drastically better. You can feel the damage being dealt. But no, his hand speed is not faster. It just looks more provocative.

 

Alright, dude. We can yell at each other all morning long and I don't either us will budge a bit. I've got life to attend to. I will probably respond later in the day as time allows. Carry on. Peace.

 

Come on...I know that he's got your back in a lot of these old v. new debates but I'm sure you recognize that it's ridiculous for him to act like Tua never beat any high quality opponents.

 

He, you, and I all know that Tua iced some world class boxers.

I think he would sound more grounded if he weren’t responding to people anchoring their arguments to Baers lack of quality wins.

This is in my opinion an argument between glitter and substance. And glitter is getting a lot of support when it shouldn’t over substance.

Glitter = Tua icing B level world class comp

Substance = Baer winning the title on shitty film