Max Baer vs Tommy Morrison

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BrutalForeman, Feb 19, 2018.


  1. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Notice:

    1) How Louis isn't doing anything particularly special here. He's keeping his feet planted, slipping most of Baer's wilder stuff and using a fine jab to set up his crushing right hooks. Baer is at a complete loss at how to handle Louis
    2) Baer has NO jab, unless one counts the arm that he sticks out to try to keep Louis away as a jab. I remember a fat kid at school do the same thing when the bullies were pounding his face.
    3) Baer has NO footwork, unless you count the little shuffling steps he takes in between getting prodded in the face by Louis' jab as 'footwork'.
    4) Louis spins Baer into the ropes and smashes him up, not vice versa
    5) Baer's chin is not invulnerable to power punching. Louis finishes him off with a single smashing right. Hmmm. Who could possibly have an ATG punch like that?

     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  2. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    You are using a fight that it is known, Baer was going into with severe hand injuries, which greatly effected his performance.

    If you are going to critique Baer be fair. This is like posting videos of Tyson vs Lewis & Williams to disect his lack of ability and argue he couldnt beat Ken Norton or something.

    And the Duke is no Joe Louis.
     
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  3. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I fail to see any difference between how Baer fought in the previous clips I showed and this one. But, OK.

    He is, however, better than Baer.
     
  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The main problem is tommy was koed or hurt bad against nearly every big hitter he faced.

    Even in the fights he won: with ruddock (one of my favorite fights), he was dropped, staggered, gassed, and in danger of being stopped. Against foreman he had to completely change tactics, refusing to mix it up and used hit and run tactics, yet still got tagged hard throughout the bout.

    On the other hand, the people claiming baer was more skilled...i have yet to see any concrete examples of this in any footage. Beating a skilled fighter doesnt necessarily mean you have world class skill, i mean nortons ring iq was light years ahead of shavers but he was stopped.

    Tommy without doubt had modern ring iq, way better stance, form, combinatioms, etc, but theres that nagging doubt when it comes to his chin. To be fair, Tommy did manage to get off the floor to win and only lost to elite fighters while bear dropped decisions to several mediocre guys.

    If tommy avoids a war, maintains a good guard, and uses his brain to win rounds, he definitely has a chance. Stopping bear isnt out of the question either as he was a good counter puncher and had devastating power himself. Claiming one "definitely" wins over the other is nonsense given all the factors and stats. Both men had several flaws that they could exploit in each other.
     
  5. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A fair and informative post.

    Kudos for examining the matchup from all angles.

    The more I compare Morrison and Baer the more that I feel Tommy would have shellacked him. However, that's me and I do concede that Morrison had only an average chin whereas Baer had a great one. I feel that it's Tommy's fight to lose.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Look at the men who beat Baer, and tell me which one of them had an average chin?
     
  7. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Willie Davies 13-19, knocked out 6 times
    Lou Nova 49-9, knocked out 6 times
    Les Kennedy 48-33-3 knocked out 12 times

    How about these?
     
  8. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Davies bout was basically just an exhibition. It appears that Baer might not actually have been trying to stop Davies.

    Three of Nova's stoppage looses came late in his career, when he was on the slide, and nobody put him down for the count until he was on the way out. This is a guy with a significantly better chin than Morrison.

    Baer was 21 years old when he lost to Kennedy, and had only fought on the local circuit.

    If we are talking about people who beat Baer, when he was really a factor at world level, you are talking Braddock, Louis, Farr, Nova.

    You could perhaps stretch a point and include Loughran, Risko and Uzcdun.

    It didn't take a great fighter to beat Baer, but it seems to have taken a durable one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Following that argument I could say that:

    Morrison seriously underestimated Bentt and didn't train nearly as hard as he should have.

    Otherwise, his two KO losses were to Mercer and Lewis, both of whom were massive hitters and both of whom I'd take over Baer in a heartbeat. Even Mercer, who was no great shakes in the skills department as a modern heavy, looks like Muhammad frickin Ali compared to Baer.

    Morrison on his "glass jaw":

     
  10. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    Your observations are just really off on this one. Our footage of Baer is limited but it's clear he has better and far more dynamic performances on film, and that shouldn't be surprising....two busted hands are going to significantly effect a fighter's performance, especially if a rain delay caused his injections to wear off .

    If Morrison was really better he would have the mid and high level wins that Baer has to support this.
     
  11. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Baer's chin, toughness and power would probably lead to Morrisons undoing... But the rare disciplined Morrison would have a good shot. All things considered though. Baer stops him in the middle rounds.
     
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  12. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    I'm not sure I would classify Mercer as a massive hitter. Above average to be sure, but Morrison was really the only time he looked like a lethal puncher at world level. Franseco was a nose injury.

    Nevermind, Mercer was a fighter that proved to be vulnerable to opponents who could box him with reasonable ability..40+ Holmes, Ferguson twice, a 39 year old Spoon, and a comeback Holyfield. If Morrison is such a good technician, why did he fumble so badly here? In truth, he wasn't. Morrison could execute technique, but he had severe costly lapses in almost every single significant fight.

    Yes, Baer had losses early in his career and later after his hand injuries, but he did prove himself at world level. He has the wins to make up for it. Morrison doesn't.
     
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ruddock, Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, Hipp, Williams and Foreman are more than your average fighters.
     
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  14. sauhund II

    sauhund II Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The only modern fighter Baer ever met was the Brown Bomber who finished him in a none competiteve fashion, Baer even shid the bed in the dressing room.

    Max Schmelling was a cruiser weight who learned to fight when he was 21............

    You can fault Tommy for many things but he came to fight and gave it all..............that fast explosive left hook was at least one of the best left hooks in the HWT biz, he moved his head coming in ,was able to rip fast combos and also had a underrated jab...... Baer never saw anything like that fast and powerfull in his entire career except Louis who ripped him a new one.

    Max Baer is TAILERMADE for modern power punchers....a tall stiff zero defense tough guy with telegraphed punches from another zip code and you could not miss his chin even if you tried..........Morrison, Tyson, Bowe , Lewis etc etc would ping him around like a bowling ball......even old Foreman would do a number on him

    Straight out a time machine Baer gets decapitated.
     
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  15. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict booted Full Member

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    Don't be that guy..man.

    Joe Hipp...no.

    Yeah, an old slow Foreman, he executed a game plan he could never execute against another heavyweight in his career.

    Razor Ruddock was an above average fighter in his prime. By 1995 he had managed one pro fight in the previous 3 years due to legal trouble and contract disputes. His only fight was a poor effort against Anthony Wade. He still gave Tommy a very hard fight, as is, this suspect version of Ruddock remains one of his best wins.


    Tillis was a solid gate keeper, below average fighter. He had been losing to anyone above "tomato can" level, and had not done nothing of note since his valiant effort against upstart Tyson some half a decade previously. If someone tried to argue a fighter like this as an above average win for Baer, you would be all over it.

    Pinklon Thomas. An above average fighter in the mid 80s, now on hard times, having lost 4 of his last 5. His effort, again, against Tyson almost half a decade previously.

    Carl Williams. Seriously? Above average? Totally washed up. Some 3 years removed from the ratings. Was losing to nobodies.

    Morrison has one win over a relevant contemporary in old George Foreman. That's it. He was fed a steady diet of washed up Tyson opponents in meaningless fights as a marketing gimmick. Baer fought and beat the contenders of his day, even while washed up he was still claiming some good scalps in Comiskey and Farr.
     


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