Max Baer would beat all of prime Liston's resume

typical choke lab,

still at it years later bringing up Williams losses after a dirty cop put a .357 slug inside williams. ‍♂️

 

Don’t forget Williams knocked out Ernie Terrell in his 26th pro fight. Terrell would not be stopped for another 9 years!!!

a year later Williams fought a more mature Terrell to a 10 round war. I scored it 48-47 Williams. Williams also boxed a prime Eddie Machen to a 10 round draw the AP had Williams winning . Not only could Williams slug, but he was very quick and good boxers of the era like Machen and Terrell had a lot of difficulty winning rounds


Alonzo Johnson was considered very durable. Williams smashed him out with one left hook in round 1

 

but not as much success as Brian London had with Rischer. Interestingly williams and London fared a similar fate against Ali. Henry cooper did better than either of them.

here’s another stat for you. Williams had a career of 94 fights. Almost 70 times he haf mismatches against no name losers. The kind of part time guys people say were lined up for Carnera. Deck hands. Cowboys with Obscure names. Baby booze. Graveyard Walters. Etc.

Williams Only had About 27 real fights spread over 21 years from a career of 94 matches. And he lost a lot of them.

 

Hello again

 

Chokelab has a weird fascination with Brian London. It still pains him to admit London lost to an ancient Nino Valdes

 

London lost to a lot of guys. Some were better than Williams.

Did Williams ever stop anyone as good as Zora Foley, Willie Pastrano or Pete Radmacher?

I don’t think there is that much in it.

 

williams only lost 3 times in his prime. To ATG Sonny Liston 2x and a razor thin loss to WBA champion Ernie Terrell. Yet for some bizarre reason, you love bringing up Williams losses when he was a zit faced teenager or later in his career after a .357 magnum slug nearly bled him to death

“real fights”

exactly how many men of that era wanted to take on a chizzled out of stone 6’3 215lb heavyweight with massive punching power and lots of speed? We know D’amato didn’t. Who else? I’m sure there were plenty

“resume”

a lot better than you realize

He faced two of the best contenders of the era Ernie Terrell and Eddie Machen. He went 1-1-1. So they were unable to establish superiority over him

Williams did win important fights in his career. Sounds like Williams got robbed of opportunity to become a WBA world champion in a very winnable fight

• 
  “Cleveland Williams, one of the four fighters picked for the heavyweight championship elimination series, won a unanimous 10 round decision over Billy Daniels Wednesday night. Williams, of Houston, is now the no. 2 ranking heavyweight while Daniels, of New York, is ranked No. 8. Williams stalked his opponent but was able to land few solid blows because of Daniels' back-treading, wind-milling type of defense. While the match was billed locally as a part of the WBA heavyweight title elimination series." -Associated Press
  • Prior to this bout the WBA had named Williams, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Terrell and Doug Jones to take part in their elimination series to determine their new titleholder after stripping Muhammad Ali of the their share of the title for signing an immediate rematch with Sonny Liston, which violated their rules.
  • On November 20th, 1964 the WBA then named Cleveland Williams to fight Ernie Terrell for the vacant WBA heavyweight title. However, on November 28th, Williams was shot in an altercation with a police officer. Eventually, Ernie Terrell met Eddie Machen on March 5th, 1965 for the vacant title.

 

Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who did to Alonzo Johnson what 29 other opponents couldn't do, said today he wants to fight 2nd ranked heavyweight Eddie Machen next. Johnson, 195, stepped into the ring last night without having been knocked out in his previous 29 fights. Williams, 210, took just two minutes and twenty six seconds to wipe that away. Johnson never landed a blow. Williams put him away with a flashing left hook." -United Press International

 

"Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who shattered the title hopes of 7th ranked Alex Miteff with a 5th round TKO, set up a howl today for a shot at champion Floyd Patterson. If Williams ever looked as though he deserved a shot at the title, it was Tuesday night. He took command of the fight from Miteff from the start, opened a bad cut over his left eye in the 2nd, floored him for eight counts in the 3rd and 4th, and was beating him badly when referee Ernie Taylor mercifully ended it 1:32 deep into the 5th." -United Press International

• After this bout, Texas Boxing Enterprises, the promoter of the bout, sent Floyd Patterson an offer of $100,000 or an option of 40% of the gate to meet Cleveland Williams

 

Ernie Terrell. How many times in his career was Terrell knocked out?

Terrell beat Folley one year after Williams knocked him out


Radamacher? LOL he was way worse than Alex Miteff

Pastrano lost to Alonzo Johnson whom Williams knocked out in 1 round

Pastrano fight was stopped on cut’s from a London head but nice try

 

Baer was very inconsistent. Liston beat some very good opponents consistently over many years. A feat beyond Baer’s capabilities

 

Actually he fought 3 of the best contenders of that time if you throw in Sonny Liston. So it’s 1-3-1 not 1-1-1. If you include “rated at the time” it’s 0-3-1 against best contenders.

 

Presumably all the guys who knocked out Charlie Powel who was similarly chiselled out of stone eye Candy for body building fans.

muscles were not seen as a big deal.

Lots of guys were willing to fight Williams more than once don’t you know. ponce Deleon fought Williams twice. Sylvester Jones fought Williams twice. Roosevelt Holmes fought Williams twice. Billy Daniels fought Williams twice. Liston fought Williams twice. Terrell fought Williams twice. Frankie Daniels fought Williams twice. Mac Foster fought Williams twice..Richardson turned up for a second fight but Williams didn’t show.. there is no shortage of men brave enough to fight Williams twice!

Williams would have had 17 less fights on his record if he hadn’t met opponents willing to fight him twice.

There was probably more. For all we know a lot of those guys that had names like Baby Booze and graveyard Walters could have been the same guy using different names.

 

London didnt stop Folley .
London v Machen.
"Machen dominated the bout as London was little more than a punching bag for the American. London retired in his corner after 5th round, complaining that his nose felt like it was broken."
Williams drew with Machen.
London stopped Pastrano on a cut eye,withPastrano in front.

• United Press International reported: "Pastrano, of Miami, Fla., was ahead on points when referee Jack Hart stopped the fight at the end of the fifth round at Harringay Arena because of a two-inch cut over the American's left eye. London had butted Pastrano in the fourth. Pastrano . . . ducked, rode with the punches and stung back with his left. But he lacked the power to deliver a decisive blow on London's big, inviting chin, and London hit his eye twice more before the fight was stopped."
• [url]Angelo Dundee[/url], Pastrano's manager and trainer, was furious over the stoppage. "How can the referee tell whether my boy's hurt," he said. "He ain't no doctor."

Pastrano had outpointed him 7 months earlier.

 

Sorry I was mistaken. He beat him on points.

“I've no complaints. London is very strong and a dangerous fighter, but I would have done better if I'd had an extra week of training." -Zora Folley