Max Kellerman: Manny Pacquiao Is Possibly The GOAT (!!!)

Can you substantiate the claims you are making about rocks in his pockets? I doubt you have anymore evidence than hearsay and rumors

 

I'll be the naysayer and say no. He didn't beat an older, faded Floyd and Pac has proven he's far from washed up. He didn't convincingly beat JMM in their quadology. If you're marked as the GOAT, you have to at least be the best of your era! Most boxing experts will say Floyd was.

Is Pac more exciting than Floyd? Without a doubt! But when it comes as to who is better, I'd still lean towards Floyd.

Max Kellerman is Skip Bayless Jr. Skip thinks Pac and McGregor are better than Mayweather.

 

True if Pac has The Magic Man Paulie Malignaggi on his resume.

 

Pac and others around him at the time have talked about putting rocks in his pockets to make weight for almost 2 decades now.
But he was only a 15 year old kid .

 

8-weight champion??

Yep - he's the man alright

 

So it's just a story that came from pacs camp. Should be taken with a grain of salt

 

No, this is well known. And a very simple minded thing to lie about with nothing to gain. This has been talked about here since he first came to America back when he beat Ledwaba.

 

GOAT - the only

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Division Champion of the world
Rags to become a Congressman and then to SENATOR
G-O-A-T he is

 

The eight division thing is an artifact of the times. There are more weight classes now. More organizations. Lots of paper "champions".

It's a little disingenuous to compare this era to the days when there were only eight divisions total and only one champ per division.

Steroids. Manny was almost certainly a steroid user durring points in his career. So what you say. Many others were too. Again, this is a disservice to the old school pre-PED fighters. Steroids definitely help a person add muscular weight. Functional tissue. Moving up in weight in the steroid era is not the same as in the SRR era.

Manny was a great boxer with a fan friendly style and personality. He will be missed. He brought many new fans to boxing.

I cannot however, consider him the GOAT. Too many losses. The loss to Mayweather is especially troubling as it really wasnt that competitive a fight. Plus, the way Mayweather handled Marquez, I guy that Manny literally went life and death with multiple times factors in.

I cannot escape the conclusion, that while Manny might have been more entertaining to watch, Floyd was the much better boxer.

In the modern era, I consider what Floyd did more impressive. Yes he benefited from the alphabet organization's and weight classes too. But he went through his career without a loss, managing to win even when he had off nights.

Lastly, can anyone conceive of Floyd losing to the Horns, Bradleys and Marquez of the world?

Floyd was the better boxer.

 

MY TAKE 1 OF 2

1. Kellerman is & has always been an HBO cheerleader. Countless fights they used P4P lists -on the opposite side SHOBOX used division rankings. Interesting that Max & company rarely included SHOBOX fighters in their P4P, while SHOBOX routinely included HBO fighters. Purpose for statement: Pac wasn't a Showtime Fighter.

2. Max contradicted his #1theme for winning. "At the end of the fight, regardless of how many an opponent landed, do U want to look like the guy who bludgeoned his opponent? I'd rather be that one. Not the guy who got bludgeoned."
But when Katsidis started fighting for HBO Max then stated "Katsidis is the kinda fighter, fans like, he looks the part, busted up because U know he is willing to fight" (I'm paraphrasing his words over several fights)
Katsidis beat Amonsot clearly- Yet he was busted up. To me that is an analogy that proves Max can elevate his opinion to the level of facts. He can contradict himself. Yes he is knowledgeable, but he alos proved bias or Pro-HBO fighters, so I take that into consideration regarding his claim Pac is GOAT.

3. I notice Pac supporters on this thread don't add his losses, up rather they are justified: He was hungry. He needed some sandwiches, as if most boxers came from elitist families well off. Add in his losses, don't discount them. 2 pages up, someone listed that he skipped 2 weight classes. So one day he suffers from malnutrition, the next day he is able to jump 2 weight classes? WHAT a difference a sandwich makes!

4. His wins are not heralded based on who he beat, rather what class he took (1) of the belts from (mainly WBO). How does the greatest fighter in the history of the sport fight to unify titles on 4 occasions (Sanchez, Marquez, Morales & Mayweather)? He's 0-4, talk about it. I'm not one to insult a response, but I am one to prod for a response. 4x he failed to win a 2nd title simultaneously & that= GOAT?

5. How many Pacfans dog the belts as alphabet titles only to turn around and love the 1 belt he got?

6. Which Greats before him got knocked out in their rookie years, prime and post years? Just a question.

7. Which Greats B4 him fought title fights at catch weights? as they existed long B4 Pac started fighting, yet guys like Armstrong who held 3 titles in 3 division at the same time is now rated below a guy who one a single belt in 8 classes in against who? Here's who:
* OPBF vs Chockvivat for an Oriental belt or regional champ.
*WBC vs Sasakul, a good fighter who never won a major title after that, just regional (Asian)
*Loses his title in 2nd defense by TKO.
*WBC International Super Bantam goes on a terror stopping 8 str8.
*World recognition when he beats Ledwaba for the IBF. (not sure why he didnt have the wbc anymore..)
*2001 1st chance to get 2 belts fails due to a draw vs Sanchez ( I had Pac winning)
2002-2010 Hands out spankings generously & is now looked as a rising great due to demolition job over a legend: MAB, Morales. Post prime took on young guns Bradley, Broner, Thurman, not top dogs, but damn good boxers.

 

2 of 2

ATG'S rarely get KTFO'd in their rookie, prime and post years. Outboxed by Marquez I, Morales I.
ATG's rarely leave a division with other belts there.
ATG's are far and few who fought for titles at catchweights.
ATG's rarely have fans who are forced to minimize their arguments by using one fighter. In this instance: Floyd.
Floyd name is mentioned all over this thread as if he is the standard for greatness. In this era, yes.
2010-2017 Only ONE KO. and that was him!

But if we use ALL TIME...then why not include those who came b4 Pac...teach us who don't think he is the greatest by comparing him to other fighters who have 100 KOs plus. Who unified their division.

4 those who say 8 division will never be done again.
Well Has Hank Armstrong record been duplicated? 3 division champ same time?
Has Ray Robinson 120 plus wins in a row been duplicated?
Tyson's youngest champ & to unify hasn't been beaten.

There has to be something besides winning one belt per division times 8 to be call the Gr8est ever.

 

If the number of weight classes and paper belts keep increasing, we will surely see it again.

I say again. The winning in eight divisions is impressive but also has to do with the era. More weight classes, more organizations and PEDs have made the eight division thing possible.

That dynamic was very different than earlier eras. Eight weight classes total. One champ per division. Think about that. Think about what it meant to be a champ in those days. Think about how over how many fights a guy like SRR held that WW title. Think about how hard it was to move between WW and MW in those days. No steroids. Only meat and potatoes.

 

Solid!

 

Actually alot of old ATGs were KOed in there pre, prime and/or post years.

There have only been 4 undisputed champions in the era Pacquiao fought in.
So plenty of ATGs have moved up whilst leaving belts in there divisions.
Jones and Toney come to mind.

Pacquiao has only fought for 2 titles with a catchweight. He has one without a catchweight 3 times since.

This is a very good point, but lots of ATG have links to other fighters.

For example Leonard and Duran, Dempsey and Tunney, Ali and Frazier, Lewis and Holyfield ect ect.