Max Kellerman's recent comments on Sweet Pea, RJJ, and PBF

I think some of Roy's quality wins, like Griffin, Hill, Johnson and even Sosa and Grant, are being overlooked. And I give more credit to the Hopkins' win than is being given here. I understand Bernard was in the joint until 88, but Bernard was older than Roy, they had the same amount of pro bouts against the same type of opposition. The fact is that Roy discovered he could not blow out Bernard and made some quality adjustments that turned the fight his way.

Consider the arguments for Monzon as the greatest middle and how those deal with his opposition. Can you really say that Monzon had a significantly deeper resume?

And believe me, I really disliked Roy during the 90's. I, too, saw a couple ducks and didn't take a shine to his attitude, arrogance and the privilege he had from his backing. But I do now, in hindsight, reluctantly see him as a great. If he had quit after the Ruiz fight, his ranking would be very high.

 

I honestly don't know how anybody couldn't see Roy on film as say damn.. that guy is one of the most athletically gifted guys I've ever seen.

 

Klompton, when it comes to Jones you simply don't know that you're talking about. Sorry.

 

Roy was phenomenally gifted. He had some of the best athletic gifts money can buy.

 

I knew the late Julio Gonzalez, who fought both RJJ and Dariusz. Never asked him about a potential matchup between the two of them. Unfortunately (in more ways than one), now I can't.

 

You don't buy reflexes, timing or even the kind of speed Jones possessed.

 

Nah. Not from scratch. But if you take a guy who's already got the potential to be elite in those areas and then "upgrade" him, you wind up with something bordering on superhuman. PED's don't produce something 10 levels above what an athlete could naturally achieve, but they're good for boosting very good to great and great to elite.

 

Roy was elite to begin with. And no, they don't do **** for reflexes or timing. And for fast twitch speed, you are either wired for it or not.

Now, for durability and recovery during training, they are great... which in turn can lead to very good results in strength, even explosive strength... if you have the natural skills and ability to apply it.

But that said, and I don't intend to be an Roy defender, the juice has been around since the late 40's... and crossed out of the lifting and bodybuilding set in the 60's....

 

Tell that to Vinny Pazienza or Francois Botha. I mean yes, ped's help of course, but no way in hell can you ever have the kind of ridiculous speed that Jones possessed, no matter what you put in your body.
It's there or it isn't.

 

Can't agree.

Chavez, Oscar, Mosley, Hopkins, and Pac all deserved their recognition at the time they were given the ranking.

Sweet Pea transitioned to #1 with his "draw" to Chavez, fair enough. But Chavez deserved his top spot before that.

And to further buy into this you would have to accept Roy Jones had better wins from 97-2005 then Oscar, Mosley, and Hopkins...and he really doesn't.

Pac and May also have the most victories over fellow P4P ranked fighters by a heavy margin.

 

I think we're saying the same thing here. They're not going to turn Botha into Ali.

But they will kick a guy's athleticism up a notch- if they didn't, top level sprinting wouldn't be riddled with PED's. That doesn't mean you'll see me cracking 10 seconds in the 100 with the right regimen. If you don't have great tools to work with, they're not going to work miracles- they'll give you a step up to what you'd be without them. Whether that's from mediocre to average, or average to good depends on the athlete.

When you're talking world class raw tools to start with, like what Roy brought to the table though, you can take that next step into near superhuman.

 

They basically allow better and quicker recovery from hard workouts. Thus, you can do your A workout 4 or maybe 5 times a week rather than 2. But in sprinting you are talking about a pretty basic athletic function, 50 strides in a straight line maintaining some modicum of form. I was a sprinter and must say it's fairly brain dead. Boxing is so much more complex, a thousand fold, and in manners in which juice would never help. Timing, strategy, technique, use of distance, angles, footwork, anticipation... it goes on and on...

I am not endorsing juicing but do believe that its effectiveness in boxing is a bit overrated.

 

Seamus

juicing may be overrated but not for the other guy in the corner that does not juice,the juicer has the edge IMO

 

Yup. An edge is an edge.

 

Eubank would definitely have been fighter of the 90s if he wanted to be. In many ways he was anyway.