Max Schmeling V Jack Johnson ?

To me, it's simple, as McVey noted, Johnson would make Max lead, and that plays right into Johnson's hand. However, let's say Johnson starts losing some of the exchanges, well, I see him getting in close and punishing Max the where Baer did. The Baer fight concerns me cause Schmeling should've used his superior boxing skill to keep his distance and win a wide decision. Instead he allowed Baer to get in close and fight in the trenches right back with him. If Jack starts to struggle, I see him turning up the aggression, and I see Max playing along, advantage Jack.

 

If Schmeling was that clever he wouldnt have lost to Hamas and drawn with Uzcudun,imo.Neither were anything special.

 

Schmeling was pretty capable, smart, decent movement, very good power and a very good technical fighter. Johnson was advanced for his time but guys like Willard, Jeffries, 170lbs 5"6 Burns and most of Johnson's opponents were not at Max's overall level. Johnson would box, move and make it ugly but close fight over 15 rds with Max S right hand making a difference in a close decision

I would not pay for this

 

Johnson was faster and stronger and overall better. He wins decision.

 

I think you meant to say you would pay for this. Johnson fans aren't being reasonable. I'll list why.

1 ) He was not a KO type of puncher at all.

2 ) He did not throw many punches, making it very hard to win round they way we score them.

3 ) His quality of opposition beaten is lower than most champions.

4 ) He struggled way too often vs Super middleweights - Light heavyweight types one of whom KO'd him cold, another outboxed him according to primary sources, and a 3rd hurt and floor him by his own admission. Yes--this happened to a heavyweight champion.

5 ) He does not have a good chin tested and hit by punchers. The punchers that landed on him in Choynski, Klondike, Gun Boat Smith in their 4 round EX match, and Willard all KO'd him. Others who hardly landed much like Ketchel marked him up and floored him. Or Hart had him on the run the 2nd half of the fight. Sam Mcvey didn't land much at all in the fight reports and was a teenager, so don't use him example as a punch who landed and tested Johnson's chin. A completely underserving title opponent like Ross, who landed near-zero hurt /stung Johnson when he did.

6 ) His best win over a prime or close to prime opponent is likely Tommy Bruns, at 5'7" 168 pounds of him. Well you could argue Martin who had a weak chin and weak body, often Ko'd inside of 4 rounds. Pretty much ever champion was better than Burns, at least that's why the historians tend to say.

7 ) His version of defense would not work vs any modern-looking boxers size or larger that had a jab. Johnson's specialty was clinching the small, or older, and hitting and holding, but he didn't do this vs. guys his size, or bigger men that were in their prime. If that's not allowed in fantasy fights, it takes the foundation away from his game.

 

Burns is 5' 6'" now?

 

Hes listed at 5'7 on boxrec but I also he was closer to 5'5 but OK hes 5'7 170lbs

 

Based on???

 

some of the old timers down at ring magazine on 31st st in NYC like Nat Fleischer and others used to chat about Johnson - Jeffries and some of the old-timers before my time- this was in the early 70's - I remember Burns being listed as 5'7 then but Nat gave a wink and said a lot of the measurements were given verbally - some were measured- but ill give you the inch if you think it makes much of a difference at all - Johnson was about 6 ft 1 1/2 inches to 6'2 and he looked it- Burns was only 5'7 170lbs give or take

 

Schmeling clowned a 198 pound Joe Louis who had already beaten Baer and Carnera.

Who did Johnson beat with his magical bicep pinching skills?

 

Jack Johnson by decision. Easy fight. Easy night.
Max would be still trying it figure out why he couldn't get off 3 days later.

 

Lets examine these sweeping statements.
Power . Schmeling had 70 fights with around a 55% average 15 of those 39 had losing records or were debutees. He has a great ko win over a young overconfident Louis, no doubt about the importance of that.
His other kos are over Hamas ,Risko,Stribling,Neusel ,Walker.Very respectable ,but not awe inspiring.
Johnson has ko's over a 35 years old come-backing Jeffries ,a young McVey.Lang,Klondike,Martin,Childs,Butler,Flynn Ketchel,Burns and an ancient Fitz.
Johnson seldom went for the finish but he could hit alright .I think he would be capable of koing most of Schmeling's stoppage victims, take a look at them on BoxRec !
Johnson's quality of opposition as champion? imo It's as good as Schmeling's,who won his title sitting on the floor clutching his groin and defended successfully once in 2 years, Young Stribling taking him into the last half a minute of the 15th round before the fight was stopped .
Johnson struggled with super middleweights?True he was ko'd by one the feared puncher Choynski when Johnson was well before his prime. Adam Pollack who has written the definitive biography on Johnson estimates Johnson was around the same weight as Choynski at that stage of his career. Which other super middleweights did he struggle with?
He entered the ring against O Brien as fat as a pig according to ringsiders and was blowing like a porpoise after the opening round .Johnson was never in the slightest trouble in that 6 rounder whereas O Brien was on the floor several times.As it was a no decision bout Johnson could not lose unless O Brien knocked him out which was extremely unlikely!

Boxers not as skilled as Johnson decisioned Schmeling.Johnson certainly doesn't have to stop Max to win this.
Chin .Johnson was ko'd by Choynski and stopped by Klondike, in both fights Johnson was green. he was not stopped again for 15 years ,when he was 37 years old after 26rds against a giant,that's 78 minutes of actual fighting.
Nobody goes 15 years without being stopped if their chin is weak!

Schmeling was stopped early in his career when he quit with a bad ear.
He was beaten by Jack Taylor in his 17th fight.Taylor was 37-23-16.
Schmeling drew in his next fight with one Leon Randol who was 13-10-1 and had won 1 of his last 6!
Schmeling was ko'd by Larry Gains.Drew with Max Diekman who had made him quit in an earlier fight. Diekman was 11-1-3. Schmeling in his 40th fight, was ko'd by Gypsy Daniels whose ko % is 25%
The two big punchers Schmeling met, Louis and Baer both ko'd him
I don't see how Schmeling's chin was any better than Johnson's!
Bottom line Johnson was never ko'd in his prime Schmeling was ,3 times ,4 if you want to include the Gains fight.

 

Johnson was six feet and one quarter of an inch tall.

 

Yep.

I think Mcvey's posts are best suited for the lounge.

Maybe you can help our multiple identity poster out, as his reply back has its usual share of errors and excuses.

He harps on Schmeling's KO percentage even though its much higher than Johnson, and Schmeling fought better punchers. Classic stuff.

McVey Errors:

1 ) Johnson had over 25 listed fights before Choynski capped him and had been fighting for at least 6 years. Does this sound like green?

2 ) Jeffries was 35, not 36 as he writes

Excuses: Too many to list!

 

Schmeling didn't clown Louis he took some shots himself ,he took plenty of jabs enough to close one eye and badly puff up the other.

Please post the 25 fights for us. Jeffries was 35, better for Johnson who was 32 himself.
ps Schmeling had 40 fights under his belt when journeyman Gipsy Daniels knocked him out!
Max was ko'd 3 times whilst in his prime, Johnson never was! Schmeling fought two real punchers, both ko'd him.
Johnson had not been fighting for 6 years when he fought Choynski more rubbish! Please do post all my excuses ,along with the names of Johnson's," over 25 opponents," before he faced Choynski!

BTW Got any more secret messages for Ratsa Gooly to parrot and try and spread some mischief?
I think your posts along with your tag partner's Ratsa Gooly are best suited to the garbage heap! Not only your posts, but both of your moronic carcasses! Two turds together!