Max Schmeling v Larry Holmes

I disagree. Especially with the first part.

 

Louis was not 190-195 in his prime, he was only 20-21 years old then (go check how much Larry Holmes weighed at that age).

At his peak he weighed around 200-205 and stood 6'2, even as high as 208 lbs in some contests (such as the brutal beating he put on Abe Simon in the rematch).

Holmes was 6'3-6'4 and weighed 210 lbs in his prime (209 vs Norton, 210 vs Shavers, 211 vs Ali).

The size difference is not as big as you make it out to be.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSt7ziz_XWQ

 

Shneling might win, Holme smight. Shmling needed to get into a pace, a guy like Dempsey, Tyson, Max Baer (who went right at hm and clobbered him) were bad matchups for Max. Shmeling was better than Baer, but matchup was wrong for him.
I'll give Holmes slieght edge here becuse he had longer run as champ.

 

No he isn't and yes he is. Noone beat Louis like that before or since (an old Louis losing to prime Marciano doesn't count).


Larry UD, by the way. Schmeling would have his moments. :good

 

Prime Holmes was not as prone to fall for the same trick twice as that version of Louis.

 

"Better" careers has nothing to do with who was more dangerous to Holmes. When Holmes bobbed Page Greg was more dangerous than any of them. He'd just come off a fine career win and HATED Holmes. "Page's talent tended to rise to the level of his desire" (oft said) and his desire vs Holmes would have been better than at any other time. At his best he matched Holmes for speed, had a fantastic jab and possessed what Ed Schuyler proclaimed as the best RIGHT HAND in the division ahead of Coetzee.

At the time of battle Witherspoon was considered a novice with no chance, Weaver a journeyman, Berbick an easy beat and Cooney incredibly dangerous and well picked, which if we use this post fact train is quite hilarious now.

Thomas would have been even more dangerous, as Holmes was undoubtably declining bigtime and Thomas had some nice skills to fight Larry including a fine jab himself.

Thomas and Page had much more chance at the time of upsetting (mild upset) Holmes than the others with the possible (speaking without hindsight which is fair) exception of Cooney.

Dokes and Holmes were never going to fight as i have said countless times as King managed Holmes and his son Dokes. Holmes was near retirement and Dokes was the possible heir apparent. The fear was Holmes would beat Dokes and retire not much later, so they'd have a defeated heir apparent and a retired Holmes

Everyone that keeps repeating Berbick, Weaver and co were more dangerous than Page, Thomas and Dokes rely 100% on hindsight, which doesn't cut it in any way shape or form. The simple fact is Holmes ducked the harder challenges of Page and Thomas and a Witherspoon (possibly Weaver too) rematch (fukk, he stated as much) and no amount of historical revision can change that fact.

 

A man that knows what he is talking about.

Lennox Lewis aside

 

That's got nothing to do with McGrain's H2H question tho. Hence the term "upset". Macca feels Max's skillset matches up well with Holmes' and it's a very fair assumption/astute observation.

I personally feel that Max beat (and indeed educated, much in the way McCall/Steward did with Lewis) a Louis that was still not the fully finished article. I think peak Louis would have stopped this version of Max, and tho he matches ok with Larry i think Larry would win. He'd eat some right hands and definitely have a tough night but i feel he'd find his way home. I sure won't be disregarding those in the opposite camp however.

I'd actually like to see Stonehands thoughts on this one too.

 

Im working on it! You know how the old saying goes John "Better late than never"

 

Ohhhh yes indeed hahaha. I'll get you around if it takes forever Suze!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Very well put J.T.

 

I thought you might appreciate it Bummy

:good

 

You'll overestimate joe louis because of his legendary status. Joe louis was a great fighter in his day but he had big flaws that would cost him dearly in more recent years (60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's). Louis has never fought anyone with the combination of size, skill, speed. and heart that holmes had. Louis only chances of winning would be for holmes to engage him in a toe to toe slugfest or to fire back at louis if louis hurt him. Other than that he'd have no chance. louis was, despite his incredible punching power, also had a ***ile chin, which would surely be expoited by holmes right hand. Holmes is far from being my favorite fighter, but it wouldn't take him 12 rounds to ko louis, he would do it in 8 or 9.

 

Larry Holmes had flaws as well...I remember Nick Wells who was 5"10 Koing Holmes 2 times at the end of Larry amatuer career and Duane Bobick dropping him with the right hand...Larry developed as a pro but certain traits resurface...I dont think Holmes would be able to handle a combo power puncher like Brown Bomber...Louis had many variations of a killer right hand over the jab and an arsenal of left hooks...if Holmes went down vs Louis like he did vs Shavers or Snipes....Louis was one of the best finishers ever...I have no doubt that Louis would stop Holmes..and a ofcourse a younger version of Holmes that Tyson KO'd

 

holmes learnt from ali as a pro (ali's sparring partner) and improved immensely from his amateur days and you yet again bring up nick wells who seems to be a no one concerning the pro game except you. clutching at straws like always..............